April 7, 2020 Show with Dr. Joe Morecraft on “With Liberty & Justice for All: Christian Politics Made Simple” (Part 3)

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on the seventh day of April, 2020, and you know, if I invite a guest back to this program three times over a short period of time, you know that I really love interviewing that guest and you know that I love promoting what he is discussing.

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Speaking of Dr. Joe Moorcraft, who has returned today for part three of a discussion on his book,

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With Liberty and Justice for All, Christian Politics Made Simple, and Dr. Moorcraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia, and an author, and it's my delight to have you back on the program so soon,

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Dr. Joe Moorcraft. Always enjoy it. And let me give our listeners right away our email address if you have any questions for Dr.

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Moorcraft on politics. You could also ask a question on theology if you want, but the theme today is

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With Liberty and Justice for All, Christian Politics Made Simple, that's part three, and our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com,

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c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com, and please, as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

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USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

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Let's say you disagree with your pastor or the predominant number of church members where you are a member.

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You disagree with them on a certain issue we're discussing, or perhaps you're even a pastor.

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You disagree with your co -elders. You disagree with the denomination that you're a part of on something.

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Well, we understand those reasons would be very good reasons to remain anonymous, but if it's not a personal, private question, please give us at least your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

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One of the biggest issues facing this country today, in fact the world today, is a mishandling of dealing with the sin of racism, as you are well aware.

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In fact, when you originally wrote this book, the climate in the

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United States was quite different. Today, people are very, very easily slandered as being racists just because they're not using what has been deemed proper vocabulary that has been invented by the new left.

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And even many people who are liberal and left -wing get themselves in trouble because they, speaking off the top of their head, may say something that gets them even fired from a job, especially if they're in the media or something public where thousands, if not millions of people hear them, utter these words that are called racist.

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And this has become racist hysteria, and it's quite disturbing because you wonder where this is all heading.

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But first of all, do you agree with what I'm saying now? Yes, sir, I have opposed racism all my life.

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Amen. Well, give us the genuine Christian approach to racism. Racism, it's interesting that in the

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Bible, no one is ever categorized according to the color of his skin. And racism is idolatrous, it is blasphemous, and it's heretical.

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And I choose those words very carefully. It's idolatrous because it makes a god of a certain race.

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It is blasphemous, and it is heretical because the book of Galatians was written against racism.

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The book of Galatians was answering the Judaizers who were legalists who believed that justification, acceptance with God, is by works and race.

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And so Paul says in chapter 3, the last verses, that all who belong to Christ, regardless of ethnic origin, are heirs of the promise.

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And right before that he said, in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek. There are neither slave nor free man.

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There's neither male nor female. Now, that doesn't mean that there's not differences that are serious ones.

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It just means when it comes to enjoy the privileges and blessings of salvation, there can be no discrimination of any kind.

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That salvation is not by race, it's not by works, it's by faith in Christ alone.

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And we have seen racism in a variety of forms.

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There's white racism, there's black racism. Today it is,

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I think there may be more racism on every side in this country than there has been in the past few years.

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We've always had to oppose racism. Racism comes in many forms, and whenever we put one race above the other as superior to the rest, we're guilty of racism.

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And what's interesting, if you look in the study of the sons of Noah, you see in the sons of Noah, and in the chart of the nations, where the various sons and grandsons and descendants of Noah wound up on earth, you see that it's only when those three families are working together harmoniously in a culture, is there a vibrant and healthy culture.

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You do a study of the historical study and sociological study of the descendants of Noah, and you find that certain lines, family lines, have greater gifts than others and have accomplished specific things, more so than other lines have.

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And when these families are at odds with each other, when they're trying to suppress the other two for the sake of one, cultures diminish.

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So it's only when, as a race, we work together with the various gifts and talents that God has given us to overcome the weaknesses that we have, that cultures flourish.

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And of course, there will be no flourishing in the human race until there is the end of racism in the

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Christian church, and the church can show the world, here's what, and I'm talking about what a harmonious society looks like.

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Here's what a society looks like when you take seriously the fact that every man and woman and child has been created in the image of God.

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And therefore, on that basis, as a value in human society, that God has given men gifts and talents to use those, not just for the benefit or advancement of himself as an individual, but for the advancement and benefit of the whole.

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And so when the world sees the church behaving with reference to racial equality, when it sees the world, the church doing what it ought to be doing in attacking racism, by God's grace, that will cause the world to see maybe we need to consider this thing of Christianity.

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And in churches that I've served, racism is a disciplinary offense, that if you are guilty of distributing racist material or teaching from a racist perspective, and you won't repent, you'll be called before the elders.

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Amen. Because racism is a very serious crime. A very, very serious sin.

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Yes, in fact, I think the Bible indicates, especially in 1

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John 4, 20, that it's salvific, this issue. If someone says,

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I love God and hates his brother, he is a liar. For the one who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love

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God, whom he has not seen. I talked to an avowed racist once who was a friend of mine.

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And I said, let me ask you a question, so -and -so. What most defines a man?

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His race or his relationship to Christ? And he said,

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I don't know. I said, well then, you don't understand the gospel.

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Because that which defines a man is not the color of his skin, nor his size, nor the color of his hair, nor the ethnic family that he's a part of.

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But what defines a man is his relationship to Jesus Christ. Amen. I have a very good friend who is a black man.

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And he's read more theology books than I have.

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And he kills termites for a living. And he started reading

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Reformed literature. And he said, Joe, I used to be very angry, thinking

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I would have to read books by these dead white men.

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He said, but the more I read the Reformed faith, the less I was concerned with the fact that they were dead white men.

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And he said, Joe, you're the only living dead white man I know. One time, the most moving thing to me in my life, with reference to race, was in South Africa back in the late 20th century.

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And there was serious racial hostility. Apartheid was in effect.

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There was a lot of bloodshed. Mandela had been released. And I was speaking at a conference of a couple thousand people, most of whom were black men and women of various tribes in South Africa, a few white people, mostly black men and women.

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And things were very tense. So when you had a meeting that big of a multiracial audience, you could not deviate from the schedule.

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Nothing could be spontaneous. So I gave my speech, my sermon actually, and I preached on liberation theology, prelude to revolution.

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Liberation theology is mixing, is redefining biblical terms with Marxist content.

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It's always involved in the softening up of a country before there's a Marxist revolution.

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So I preached on liberation theology and the difference between that and evangelical theology.

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I sat down, and then a man came up from the audience. And he was a man who was part white, part black.

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Years ago, there was some intermarrying. And he grabbed the microphone.

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And I mean, there was silence very quickly. Nobody moved. They didn't know what was next.

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He said, when I came to this conference and I saw that this white American was going to speak on liberation theology,

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I knew he was a puppet of the apartheid government to keep us in line.

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And I hated him. And he said, and then he started crying.

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And then he said, and I heard him preach the gospel. And that gospel has moved and changed my life.

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And he turns around and embraces me in front of all these people. So he had a very good reason to be angry.

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He didn't know he had any black African blood in him. And he was married to a white woman, lived in a white section of a big city.

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And two bureaucrats came to his house and said, sir, you have a certain amount of black

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African blood in you. You can't marry a white woman. And you've got to move out of this part of town. So that was the first time he ever knew anything about his past.

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So he moved way out in the country. And I can understand why he'd be mad.

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But every year thereafter until his death, I would call him on the telephone and talk to him.

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I'm sure the only American that he'd ever talked to. But I'll never forget that experience when he embraced me in front of all those 2 ,000 white and black

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Africans. Praise God. That's what the gospel does. Education can't do it. Science can't do it.

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Politics can't do it. You know the great verse in Colossians that says, in Christ all things hold together.

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That is, there is no unity in the human race outside of Christ.

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Nothing can hold the human race together and save it from various kinds of wars, including racial wars, except the power of the gospel of the

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Lord Jesus Christ. That's what we've got to be committed to if we're going to end racism.

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But of course now in this country, Americans are so manipulated by the left and by media that if they can make you afraid, they can control you.

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If they can make you feel guilty, they can control you. And if they realize you're ignorant, they can control you.

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And so we as Christians must understand these things, that there is a powerful movement out there to transform and change this country from what it was created to be into an anti -Christian culture.

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And so Christians must fear only God and not man, not viruses, not political power, no threat on their life.

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The only person Christians must fear is God himself and then they'll fear nothing else.

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The second thing, as long as people have a guilty conscience and they don't know how to deal with that guilt and they haven't gone to Christ for forgiveness of sins, the left will manipulate them into voting however they want them to vote.

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And if American Christians stay ignorant of the word of God, the all -encompassing authority of the word, the universal lordship of Christ, the real history of the

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United States and of the West, as long as we remain ignorant, they will convince us in their government school system of whatever they want us to believe and we will be too dumb to argue with it.

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Yeah. Yeah, one of the reasons I started my question with the whole woke movement, the woke culture, is that one of the reasons

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I despise it and am so dismayed that people, Christians that I highly respect who have written very valuable books that I've interviewed, have succumbed to this woke movement, is that it is perpetuating racism itself.

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It's just a different kind of racism. Exactly. If you could say that all white people need to repent of racism because it's innately bred in us, there's something, a part of the fabric of our being that makes us racist, and that on the other side of the coin, black people, and you might include dark -skinned

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Hispanics and other minorities, they, many of these folks in the woke movement, will say, cannot be guilty of racism.

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That shows you that they are really saying that they are superior to people who lack melanin content in their skin.

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And that people are racist if they use certain phrases. Right. Like if we say we believe in interpreting the

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Constitution according to the original ten of the authors, that's racist. Right. If we believe the

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Bible applies to every area of life, that's racist. I mean, on and on. And so, if we feel guilty, if they can make us feel guilty over what our ancestors did, and which we have not done, they will control us in the voting booth, and we must not cower.

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We must not be intimidated by them. So that when they say those things to us, we must not act like a crab and start backing off as fast as we possibly can.

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We must stand there courageously and lovingly, and stand for the truth.

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Don't let these people, any of these people, and not all of them, that's not a racist statement.

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There's white and black. I mean, I had a man, heard a man one time ask God to forgive him for his white, because he's white.

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That's not saying very much about God. I think a black person should never want to be white, and a white person should never want to be black, and a yellow person should never want to be red, etc.

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You know, one of the problems with white people in this country is, and this is people

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I've talked to, I think a lot of white Christians in this country have just assumed, without thinking about it, that when we all die and go to heaven, we're all going to be white.

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Like the Mormons teach. Yeah, you look at the white little angels, you look at the

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Caucasian paintings of Jesus with chestnut hair and blue eyes, which of course he didn't have, and we don't realize that when we get to heaven,

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God's going to raise us from the dead with the same bodies that were put in the grave, but they're going to be perfected, glorified, and some of those bodies are going to be white, and some are going to be black, and some are going to be red, and some are going to be yellow, and some are going to be every shade in between.

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Every tribe and tongue and people and nation will be represented. And the reason for that, as one author said, is that God loves pizzazz.

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He doesn't want everything to be drab and white, he wants color. And that's what heaven is going to be.

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I know that almost every time I interview you, for some reason I bring up my friend, my late friend, who's in eternity with Christ, William Norman Grigg, who was a very well known, well he was very well known amongst libertarians anyway, and at one time the editor, general editor for the

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New American Magazine, but he told me, he was a very dark skinned

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Mexican, and he told me when he became a Mormon, this is before he was a

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Christian, he was a Mormon convert to Christianity, he was raised in Mormonism actually, by adopted parents, and he told me that he was taught if he was a faithful Mormon, he would be one day white and delightsome in the afterlife.

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Oh, well in my newest edition of my book, you can get it on Comprehensive Christianity, it's e -book or paperback with Liberty and Justice Falls, in the newest edition there is a long chapter on racism.

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Good, it's greatly needed, and in fact one of the ways those who hate

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Christ and his word try to vilify the Bible, is they will try to manipulate people to believe that the

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Bible itself is racist because it approved of slavery, but isn't it interesting Joe, as you well know, in the old covenant, man stealers were put to death, it was a crime punishable by death, and that is the very root of racism is man stealing.

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Yes sir, that is true, and the Bible explicitly forbids all forms of racial slavery, so that if we believe in slavery because of the color of one's skin, we're displeasing

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God, and racism is so contrary to the gospel, and so Christians, we must repent of any racism in us, but at the same time as we're asking forgiveness for the racism, we must realize that if we had racist tendencies in us, that Christ now has washed us clean in the blood of the

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Lamb, and therefore the guilt that we really had is gone, and he bore the punishment for it in our place, so we must not let people intimidate us, and make us fearful, and make us feel guilty, and we certainly cannot remain in our ignorance anymore.

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Amen, and when I was referring to man stealing being the root of slavery,

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I was speaking specifically of American slavery, and also

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European slavery, the forms of slavery that were actually approved of in the scripture were more akin, from what

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I understand, to those who were prisoners of war, those who sold themselves into slavery because they were in debt that they could not pay, and other things like that.

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Do you want to expand on that? No sir, I think that that's good enough. I think the point is that if we endorse,

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I know a couple preachers that recently endorsed racial slavery.

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I mean, I couldn't understand it, I couldn't believe it, and finally they left the denomination they were part of, and went off somewhere.

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Wow. But I think we cannot be solid, just like we cannot be solid about abortion.

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Amen. We as evangelical and reformed Christians cannot leave anybody in doubt as to where we stand on the issue of race.

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Amen. You know, you said something key there, because although I agree that Martin Luther King Jr.

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was not a biblically orthodox individual, he was not a born -again believer, judging from his own written beliefs about the deity of Christ and about the cross and many other key teachings in the scriptures that are pillar teachings that must be believed by those who are truly born again.

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And although I believe there were many things about him that make him less than a stellar figure in history, his immorality and so forth, at the same time,

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I think too many white Christians that I have spoken to or with have vilified him completely, and as he himself said, when white ministers would plead with him just to be patient and not to be involved in these marches and so forth, and that one day all of these

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Jim Crow laws would be overturned and so forth, he was basically saying to them, the reason why

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I'm doing what I'm doing is because you have done nothing about it. You're not saying anything against this sin.

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So we have to remember that when we are perhaps too quick to... Well, let me be more specific.

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In the early part of the 20th century, I think we may have talked about this the last time we were together. In the early part of the 20th century and the last part of the 19th century, when the modernists were taking control of everything, the good guys, the fundamentalists, the evangelicals said, well, let's reduce what we're going to defend in the faith to about five issues and let the rest go by the board, and particularly, let's just talk about spiritual things and not get the church to take a stand on any political and economic and social issue.

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So at that point, the church became culturally irrelevant. It withdrew from the war.

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It took a defensive stance. Its primary concern was to save as many souls from hell as we can before Jesus comes and burns everything up.

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And the culture is going to get worse and worse, and so we shouldn't try to do anything about it. So once the church took that stand, it left a vacuum.

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And the liberals and people who did not believe in historic evangelical

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Christianity and denominations like the Presbyterian Church entered that vacuum with their own agenda.

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And so their agenda has dominated the United States for the past hundred years because the

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Christians, whose agenda once dominated, though we were never perfect, withdrew from the battlefield and left the culture to the anti -Christians.

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So it's time now that Christians understand that and that we get our agenda from the

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Word of God. And we don't react. Right now, all we're doing is reacting.

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When some body has something wrong and has a wrong policy and an evil bill or whatever, we react to it.

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And so as long as we're on the defensive, nothing's going to happen. So you're saying that you are laying at the feet the blame for much of the downfall of this nation to those who are on the right side, the correct side of the fundamentalist modernist controversy, but who unfortunately went on a side trail that dragged the movement into a dangerous area?

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Is that what you're saying? Yes, sir. I have a friend named John Whitehead, who I hadn't seen for years, but years ago he wrote a great book.

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And the book is called The Stealing of America. Yeah. And I told him one time,

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I said, John, I love your book. I thought it was great, but the title's mistaken. They didn't steal it from us.

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We gave it to them. Yeah, there you go. There you go. And what a tragedy that, you know,

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I had never even thought of that connection until you just mentioned it. And by the way, folks,

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I do want you to know that there is another theory about Martin Luther King Jr.

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I interviewed an Orthodox Presbyterian minister who wrote a biography of Dr.

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King. He, although he does not have any proof that is irrefutable, he believes that King did become a

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Christian, which is why his father, who was apparently a strict fundamentalist type of pastor, the only way that his father would have invited him back to the church to teach was if King had repented of the liberal heresies that he had been taught in college and seminary and so forth.

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Have you heard what just happened with reference to his niece, Martin Luther King's niece?

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The pro -life advocate? Oh, a great pro -life.

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Elvita King. Yes, a great pro -life advocate and a Christian. She was asked by a group on the

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Georgia Tech campus to come and speak. And she would receive an honorarium,

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I guess. And I think the name of the organization on the campus was

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Students for Life. But they asked Georgia Tech if they would take care of her expenses, etc.,

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which was the normal thing to do. And they refused.

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Georgia Tech refused to have her speak, refused to take care of her expenses, saying that she probably would be religious and we don't want religion here.

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And so they would not let the niece of Martin Luther King speak on Georgia Tech campus.

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So, Georgia Tech has just been sued. So I hope the suit stands up.

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Yeah, me too. By the way, folks, if you want to look up that interview that I mentioned on the Iron Sharpens Iron radio archive, the pastor that I mentioned who wrote the biography of Martin Luther King is

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Micah Edmondson, M -I -K -A -E -D -M -O -N -D -S -O -N.

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If you just type in Micah, M -I -K -A, in the search engine of the archive, you will find that interview.

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And I did and still do have much disagreement with Pastor Micah, but I just wanted to let you know that there is an alternative understanding amongst some

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Christians about King, where he wound up spiritually. In my opinion, if he really had become born again, he would have been shouting that from the rooftops more than anything else he was standing for, no matter how noble the other things were.

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But anyway, we're going to our first break right now. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, we already have a number of people waiting to have

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Joe answer their questions. But if you'd like to get in line, please do so quickly before the line gets too long.

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Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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And as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Joe Morgrath. Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a

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Well, join us each Friday on the program Iron Sharpens Iron with your host

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Chris Arnzen and Pastor Joe Jacobs as they explore God's Word for answers to this and other of life's related issues.

39:13

Tune in at firstloveradio .org. That's firstloveradio .org.

39:19

Each Friday at 1 p .m. Pacific, 4 p .m. Eastern. That's Iron Sharpens Iron on firstloveradio .org.

39:27

Fridays, 1 p .m. Pacific, 4 p .m. Eastern. To hear what the Bible has to say about pandemics and how we should respond.

39:44

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio depends upon the financial support of fine Christian organizations to remain on the air, like the

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Historical Bible Society. The Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books, manuscripts, and Bibles of historical significance spanning nearly a thousand years.

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Since 2004, HBS has toured schools and churches throughout the

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Come journey through their website, historicalbiblesociety .org. The collection includes a complete 11th century

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41:07

today. Thank you, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, for your faithful support of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

41:25

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

41:31

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

41:37

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

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It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word and to enthusiastically proclaim

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Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

42:08

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.

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For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

42:24

That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.

42:33

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

42:46

And please, folks, why not send a letter to Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, and or his co -pastor, fellow elder,

42:58

Pastor Christopher McDowell, and thank them for sponsoring Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and for continuing to sponsor this program even amidst this coronavirus scare that has brought many congregations, most congregations, to not have public worship services until further notice, which has cost them financially because many people either are not giving because they're not physically present or have delayed their giving.

43:32

And some of these folks have lost their jobs. They've lost their livelihood and have been unable to give to the churches where they are members nationwide.

43:43

So why not send an extra thank you to Hope Reform Baptist Church for their sponsorship of this program and perhaps even send them a little financial gift as your way of saying thanks if you can afford to do so.

43:58

We are now back with our guest today, Joe Moorcraft. He is the pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia.

44:06

We are discussing part three of a discussion we began a number of weeks ago on his book

44:13

With Liberty and Justice for All, Christian Politics Made Simple, now in its new edition.

44:19

How many editions has it gone through, Joe? Several. I don't know. Okay. Well, it's a new edition.

44:25

And if you have a question, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. And before I go to any listener questions,

44:31

I still wanted to ask you a few more things about racism.

44:37

It's such an important issue. Specifically, how it is connected to politics, since your book is on Christian politics made simple.

44:48

And if you could address that intertwining of these two issues. Well, racism is a theological issue.

45:01

And it has to do with a person's way of looking at life and living in this world.

45:08

And we have those in this country that are embarrassed about our

45:13

Christian past. And we have a lot to, we've done a lot of things wrong.

45:19

We have shown racism in many ways throughout our past, but we've repented of that.

45:25

And they want to make us feel guilty about what our ancestors did, so that they can control us into either being silent or voting the way they want us to vote.

45:40

Now, these aren't just all black people, as I said a while ago. We're talking about all kinds of people who have presupposed anti -Christian assumptions.

45:50

And they can't stand the Christianity that dominated America. They can't stand the institutions that historic

46:01

Christianity produced in this country that were good. And so they want to condemn, with racism, the good institutions and the biblical institutions that our forefathers founded, even though our forefathers weren't perfect.

46:18

Nevertheless, some of the institutions that they did establish, like a constitutional government, a limited civil government, and the rest, they want to throw out the baby with the wash water.

46:31

And they use racism as an excuse to condemn anything that has been produced by an imperfect people in this country.

46:42

America was established and made great by people who believed in the

46:51

Protestant version of Christianity. I say that very carefully because I don't attribute to the fact that America was great because it was founded by Europeans.

47:06

Caucasian Europeans, Anglo -Saxons, and all the rest. As I've said in a speech that I gave once,

47:13

God made America great in spite of the fact that the founders were Europeans. In spite of the fact that we were

47:21

Caucasian. In spite of the fact that we were sinful. It was because of the motives and the worldview of Protestant Christianity that these sinners did believe and sought in their imperfect way to establish this country that made us a city on a hill, which we hope would be imitated by the various nations of the world.

47:42

Now, one thing that is disturbing, and this is something that I'm sure most of us in some way are guilty of, we define people and the entirety of their being according to something that they said or something that even they believe, which comprises a minority of their actual life.

48:07

But when people will slander someone as being racist because of one part of their ideology,

48:18

I'll give you an example. I'm sure that many leftists would consider my dear sweet mother, who's spending an eternity with Christ right now,

48:28

I'm sure they would identify her today, the liberals that is, the leftists, would identify her as some kind of a racist, even though my mother was a precious saintly woman.

48:36

And the reason why I say that they may consider her that, to be a racist, is that back in the 60s and 70s, when

48:49

I was growing up, she used to occasionally say, in fear perhaps of who

48:56

I might date, that the reason that she was opposed to interracial marriage was because I hate to think of the hardship that the children will go through.

49:07

Now that's something that is foreign to the thinking of today's young people because it's a very common thing today, interracial marriage, and I hate to even use the term interracial, it's one race, the human race, but people of mixed colors, if you will, mixed skin colors.

49:29

Today that's very, very common, and of course, as we already know from what you said and from what the

49:35

Bible teaches, that there is nothing in the Bible that prohibits that. In fact,

49:41

I think it's a sin to say that the Bible does teach that you should not marry somebody of a different skin color.

49:46

But my dear, sweet mom, although she had that mindset, and I truly believe that that was her motive for thinking that, because back in those days, a child might have a hard time, a very hard time growing up, being of mixed -colored parents, but at the same time, my mother viewed the use of the

50:07

N -word in our home as being equivalent to using the most vulgar profanity.

50:13

She equated racist terminology with blasphemous and disgusting, perverted language.

50:22

And I can still remember clearly to this day, as a young kid, probably even less than 12, my friends and I were in our basement, laughing our brains out, playing the recording of the music from the very famous play

50:39

Hair, and there's a song in that play, sung by a black man, where he is using all of the pejorative terms, the racist terms against black people, all strung together in this song, and my mother,

50:56

I can still remember her running down the stairs and yanking that tape out of the tape recorder, or perhaps it was a vinyl record,

51:05

I can't remember, yanking it off the turntable, but I remember her being so furious that we would dare to play something like that under her roof, because she thought racism was a very serious sin.

51:19

Now, if you want to comment on what I just said about the danger of identifying somebody in their totality just because they're wrong about something.

51:27

Well, I think we must understand, as bad as racism has always been, that today's racism is revolutionary.

51:39

That is, as somebody said once, a long time ago, some people will want to blot out the sun if they find a stain on the sundial.

51:56

And that's a revolutionary thought. Let's bring down the past. Let's bring down everything that these

52:06

Protestants have created in this country because there was a stain on the sundial. And so we as Christians are not revolutionaries.

52:16

We do not believe in causing social disturbance so as to change law.

52:23

We're reformers. We want to, by our lives and by our testimony and our preaching and our churches, to reform ourselves and our families and our culture by the word of God in the power of the

52:37

Holy Spirit. And we are not revolutionaries. But understand that today, those that are calling the shots in media and leftist politics are.

52:51

They're using the racial card, so to speak, to destroy not only the bad things about America's past, but the good things that were motivated by and informed by basic Christian principles.

53:12

And Christians have to see this. Racism is a terrible thing. But racism today is a card that is played to make people feel guilty for the past of their ancestors so they can be manipulated and maneuvered into being accomplices in the destruction of a once great nation.

53:37

Yeah, it really shuts down any kind of intelligent discourse when somebody calls you a racist or whatever other pejorative term they may hurl at you, slanderously.

53:55

And it is a way, it's an obvious, palpably obvious tactic in shutting down conversation so that your reputation and the view that others have of you is covered with dirt.

54:14

Because, oh, if he's a racist, why do I listen to anything else? That is the purpose, to shut you up as a

54:19

Christian. Yes. Now, I don't want to downplay the fact that in this country, black people have been greatly abused.

54:30

Amen. Neglected. I can understand why some young men and women have violently reacted because of what they've been told at public schools, making it even worse than it was in the past.

54:48

And we must be loving. We must be patient.

54:55

We must be compassionate. We must not leave the impression that we have done everything right and that black people have not been abused.

55:08

They have been abused in this country in many ways by white people.

55:15

Amen. And, in fact, you can pick up where you left off when we return from our midway break. Okay. This is the longer than normal break, folks.

55:21

Please be patient with us because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us this midway break because they have to follow

55:32

FCC regulations on localizing this program to Lake City, Florida, with their own public service announcements, which they air in the middle of our show, while we air our globally heard commercials.

55:43

So write down as much of the information as you can that our advertisers offer so that you can patronize our advertisers more frequently and successfully, which will further ensure we remain on the air.

55:56

Also write down questions for Joe Moorcraft at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

56:01

chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away, God willing. We're going to be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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Lindbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lindbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century.

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Call Lindbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402.

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Or visit lindbrookbaptist .org. That's lindbrookbaptist .org. Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

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I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

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Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

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Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself. Recently, he wrote a book titled

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Consider the Evidence for the Bible. Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword.

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Dan also has a master's degree in theology. Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

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He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country. Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

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He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy. And currently, his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for $1 million or more, and in approximately 10 different states.

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In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history. In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the

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Law Journal. If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state,

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I recommend that you call Dan. Consultations are free. There is no fee unless you win.

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Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878. 1 -800 -669 -4878.

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Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. This is

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Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

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Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support

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Iron Sharpens Iron radio financially. Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our

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Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

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If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

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Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

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Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

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Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King, Jesus Christ, today and always.

01:00:10

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

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James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and the Dividing Line webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen, and the brethren at Hope Reformed Baptist Church, now located at their new, beautiful facilities in Corham, Long Island, New York.

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I've had the privilege of opening God's Word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my

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New York debates. I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, to anyone who wants to be accurately taught, discipled, and edified by the

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Holy Scriptures, and to be surrounded by truly loving and caring brothers and sisters in Christ.

01:02:44

I also want to congratulate Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Corham for their recent appointment of Pastor Rich Jensen's co -elder,

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Pastor Christopher McDowell. For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net,

01:02:57

that's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711.

01:03:04

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island that you heard about them from James White on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:03:23

Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.

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His name is Dan Buttafuoco. Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

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Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself. Recently, he wrote a book titled Consider the

01:03:44

Evidence for the Bible. Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword. Dan also has a master's degree in theology.

01:03:51

Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states. He represents many

01:03:57

Christians in serious injury matters all over the country. Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

01:04:04

He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy. Currently, his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for $1 million or more, and in approximately 10 different states.

01:04:17

In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history. In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the

01:04:27

Law Journal. If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state,

01:04:33

I recommend that you call Dan. Consultations are free. There is no fee unless you win.

01:04:40

Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878. 1 -800 -669 -4878.

01:04:48

Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:04:54

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. The coronavirus pandemic has rapidly changed our way of life, bringing so many uncertainties.

01:05:08

When will it end? Why do disasters like this happen? How do we deal with anxiety, fear, and the like?

01:05:15

Well, join us each Friday on the program Iron Sharpens Iron with your host, Chris Arnson, and Pastor Joe Jakowitz as they explore

01:05:24

God's Word for answers to this and other of life's related issues. Tune in at firstloveradio .org.

01:05:32

That's firstloveradio .org. Each Friday at 1 p .m.

01:05:38

Pacific, 4 p .m. Eastern. That's Iron Sharpens Iron on firstloveradio .org.

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Fridays, 1 p .m. Pacific, 4 p .m. Eastern. To hear what the Bible has to say about pandemics and how we should respond.

01:06:07

As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

01:06:12

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

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Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshipped and how he shall be represented in the world.

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They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

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God in spirit and truth. Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a

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God -centered focus. Reading, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, baptism, and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy, and sobriety.

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Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at gcbcnj .squarespace

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.com. That's gcbcnj .squarespace .com.

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Or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654.

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Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Hi, this is

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John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the

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Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the

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Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.

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I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise.

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And yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time. And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

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I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

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Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

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I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com

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where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. Charles Hedden Spurgeon once said,

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Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted.

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That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at CVBBS .com. That's CVBBS .com.

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Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. And don't forget, folks, you can call

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01:11:34

Before I return to my discussion with Dr. Joe Moorcraft on Christian Politics Made Simple, I just have a few announcements to make.

01:11:43

First of all, tomorrow, that's Wednesday, the 8th of April, my dear friend of several decades,

01:11:51

Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, returns to Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio to discuss the heretical teaching of purgatory, the teaching of the

01:12:02

Church of Rome that, among other heretical teachings, militates against and mocks the cross of Christ and the accomplishment, the perfect accomplishment that Christ provided in regard to redemption on the cross.

01:12:20

And that's 20 years after the infamous James White versus Peter Stravinskis debate that I arranged on Long Island on that very theme on purgatory.

01:12:33

And many of our listeners know why that has some infamy behind it, a statement that Father Stravinskis made during the question -and -answer session of the debate when somebody asked if he could buy his way out of purgatory or lessen his time in purgatory through financial giving, and Father Stravinskis said, hey, pay now or pay later.

01:13:01

But James White's going to be on the show tomorrow, so mark a calendar for that. Also, a man who

01:13:06

I believe is a mutual friend of Dr. Moorcraft's and mine, Bill Shishko, former pastor of the

01:13:13

Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square, Long Island, now pastoring a church plant of the

01:13:18

OPC, The Haven, in Deer Park, Long Island, New York. Pastor Bill is going to be discussing ministry in a post -COVID world.

01:13:28

And then Pastor Joe Jakowicz returns to the show on Friday. Pastor Joe Jakowicz of Christ Bible Church in Pleasanton, California, and founder of First Love Radio, First Love Publications, and First Love Missions.

01:13:41

He is going to be giving a coronavirus update, as we have been doing every

01:13:46

Friday and will continue to do until further notice. So keep those excellent interviews on your calendar.

01:13:56

In fact, let me throw in a couple more. Banu Gadi, who is a

01:14:02

Christian pharmacist, will be on Monday, the 13th of April, to give us some really great news regarding developments for preventing the coronavirus and assisting those who already have it.

01:14:17

And then on Tuesday, the 14th of April, Kurt Daniel returns to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr.

01:14:23

Kurt Daniel, to discuss his book, The History and Theology of Calvinism. And there is much more that week as well.

01:14:31

Also, folks, as far as we know, we are going to still be conducting our

01:14:38

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Spring Pastors Luncheon. And that's going to be held,

01:14:44

God willing, of course, Friday, the 29th of May, from 11 a .m.

01:14:49

to 2 p .m. at the Bongiorno Conference Center in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, featuring Dr. Conrad Mbewe, who

01:14:56

I believe, and I'm not exaggerating when I say this, I believe he's the most powerful preacher alive on the planet Earth.

01:15:02

He's the pastor of Kabwata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, and he's also a lecturer at African Christian University, been a dear friend of mine since 1995.

01:15:12

And I believe that you will be blown away if you've never heard him preach before, and even if you have, if you attend this conference, if the

01:15:21

Lord enables us to move forward with it. That's Friday, May 29th, 11 a .m.

01:15:27

to 2 p .m. at the Bongiorno Conference Center in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. If you want to register for this free event, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:15:36

chrisarnson at gmail .com and put Pastors Luncheon in the subject line. This luncheon is only for men in ministry leadership.

01:15:44

And if you are very pessimistic that we will be having this event on May 29th, send me your registration anyway.

01:15:55

This way, you'll be with certainty on the email list to be notified of a different date if we actually have to reschedule the event.

01:16:08

So, that's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Put Luncheon in the subject line. Also, folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear, please, please help us.

01:16:20

We are in urgent need of your finances because of the fact, mainly because of the fact, that our two largest financial supporters had to postpone any further financial support of this show because of the fact that the coronavirus scare has radically and negatively impacted their businesses.

01:16:40

So, we are on an until -further -notice hiatus on giving from these two major supporters.

01:16:50

And I'm urging you, if you love this show and you don't want us to vanish from the airwaves, please help us make up for that huge devastating loss.

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01:18:23

and put advertising in the subject line. Last but not least, folks, if you are not a member of a

01:18:28

Bible -believing church, and you're not even prayerfully looking for one, you're living in rebellion against God, you've got to rectify that situation, and I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world, and I may be able to help you find a church, no matter where on the planet you live.

01:18:42

Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put I Need a Church in the subject line. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com,

01:18:49

and that's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest,

01:18:55

Dr. Joe Moorcraft, on his book, With Liberty and Justice for All, Christian Politics Made Simple.

01:19:01

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Dr. Moorcraft, before we go to any listener questions, you were in the midst of talking about how it is foolish of us to try to whitewash, pardon the pun, any of the sins of this nation against black people when we are involved in conversation with our friends, family, loved ones, and neighbors.

01:19:27

And we actually sound like idiots when we try to pretend that this nation has not done a great disservice, to put it mildly, and even committed crimes against black folks in this country.

01:19:41

In fact, as much as I admired Ronald Reagan, the one sentence that he said that made me cringe, even as a young man,

01:19:50

I can remember, I believe he was involved in a debate, perhaps even with the man who would become his vice president,

01:19:58

George Herbert Walker Bush, and he said, I want to bring America back to the days before we had a black problem.

01:20:06

I remember him saying that. But anyway, if you could, Joe. Well, I think, first of all, we must, when we're accused of America having racist problems through its past, must be quick to say we're embarrassed by Christians being racist.

01:20:24

We're embarrassed by those times in our history when we have enslaved people because they were black and whatever, we refused them the freedom to vote, to live in certain places.

01:20:39

We must be very quick to say we're embarrassed for the way people have acted toward various races in the

01:20:47

United States. And secondly, we must be very humble when it comes to dealing with racial issues today.

01:20:59

When I say that we must not be guilt manipulated, and that we must not be fearful, and we must understand the revolutionary nature of modern racism, and we must stand against it,

01:21:13

I hope your listeners do not interpret any of that as standing with an arrogance, and a smugness, and a self -righteousness, that we deserve nothing good from God.

01:21:30

We're sinners, and if he's given us anything good throughout our history, it's been because of his grace, and not because Americans are exceptional.

01:21:41

God's exceptional. We're sinners, and his grace is exceptional.

01:21:47

So, when we deal with people that are confused or upset about the racial issues of today and the past, it must be answered with deep humility.

01:22:04

There but for the grace of God go I. Amen. Okay, let's go to some of our listener questions.

01:22:12

We have Ben in St. Lucia in the Caribbean, who says,

01:22:17

I find myself shying away from the subject of politics with people, as I feel like I risk jeopardizing opportunities to share the gospel or witness to others that may get caught up in opposing politics.

01:22:34

How does one balance the two? That's a superb question. That is a great question, and we can't escape it.

01:22:44

We don't want to escape it. Jesus Christ is the ruler of the kings of the earth, and he came to change everything about culture by his grace.

01:22:54

It says in Romans 12, Paul says, I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies as living sacrifices to God.

01:23:04

And then several verses later in Romans 13, he says, and here's how you respond to political things.

01:23:11

Here's what your response must be. Here's what your attitude must be. So, the lordship of Christ and the authority of the word of God is all -encompassing.

01:23:22

If I'm witnessing to somebody, of course, the dominant note will be the salvation that's found in Christ for men, both body and soul, and in his world.

01:23:34

I tell people, Jesus did not come to save your soul. He came to save you, body and soul, and the world in which you live.

01:23:43

He is not only a personal savior, he's a cosmic savior. He came to bring you to repentance, and repentance, first of all, means a change of mind.

01:23:53

Metanoia is the Greek word. A change of mind that leads to a change of life.

01:24:00

And so, when a person becomes a Christian, Christ wants him to change his mind about everything that's not in conformity with the word of God.

01:24:10

So, if I'm witnessing to somebody about Christ and about salvation and about his relationship to God, and he brings up abortion, for example, and I'm not going to drop that.

01:24:26

I'm not going to skirt it. I'm going to say, well, I'm not God, but I don't see how in the world a

01:24:33

Christian could believe in murdering babies. I'm going to be forthright. Amen, and obviously that transcends politics.

01:24:41

Yes, bigger than politics, but our politics have to change as well.

01:24:48

And, you know, it says in Romans 10 -9, if we confess with our mouths that Jesus is

01:24:55

Lord and believe in our hearts that God has raised him from the dead, we shall be saved.

01:25:01

So the lordship of Christ is not limited to our hearts or to our church or to our home.

01:25:08

He is the King of kings and Lord of lords, and his kingdom is universal and eternal and unconquerable and invincible.

01:25:16

And not only are individuals accountable to his lordship, but kings are accountable to his lordship.

01:25:21

Political institutions. So when a person, when we're witnessing to somebody, we tell them, if Christ is going to become your

01:25:32

Savior, you must not only rest in him alone for salvation and not trust in yourself or any merit in man.

01:25:43

You must also bow before him as the King of your life because the only Savior there is is a

01:25:49

King. And we cannot enjoy the benefits of Christ's cross without bowing before the claims of Christ's crown.

01:25:58

And so we tell the person we're witnessing to not to receive Christ and bow before him in some kind of limited, truncated sense.

01:26:06

Become a Christian so you won't go to hell when you die. Praise the Lord, that is true. But it means become a

01:26:13

Christian so that you can live for him in this life and glorify and enjoy him forever in this life.

01:26:20

And manifest your faith in him and your love for him and your gratitude to him by obeying his law in thought, word, and deed and applying that law in every aspect of your life.

01:26:34

Amen. Well, thank you, Ben. And make sure you give us your full mailing address there in the

01:26:39

Caribbean. And we will have CVVBS .com ship you out a free copy of With Liberty and Justice for All Christian Politics made simple by our guest

01:26:50

Dr. Joe Moorcraft. We have RJ in White Plains, New York who asks as much as I have many issues with our

01:27:02

President Trump and as much as I was very opposed to his candidacy during the

01:27:09

Republican primaries I still think he is being slandered and vilified especially in regard to racism.

01:27:17

What do you think about our President in regard to this sin and if you could comment about any proof that he is a racist if you agree with the accusations.

01:27:29

Well, I have no reason to believe he's a racist. There's places where I disagree with him intensely.

01:27:38

There are things that he's done well that I'm surprised he did. And I think as we said before, being a populist and not a conservative or liberal he's going to do some things right and some things wrong.

01:27:51

But I don't have any complaint against him because he's a racist.

01:27:56

I don't believe that at all. People slander him because he believes in strict border control and he's very opposed to illegal aliens living here without any threats of being penalized in any way and that is ridiculous to equate that with racism.

01:28:17

Yeah, he would be against any white illegal person in this country as well. This is another attempt of the revolutionaries to manipulate us into buying into what they're saying

01:28:33

Defining the border of the United States or protecting it is not racist at all.

01:28:39

It has to do with the nature of this country. But those who are on the left want illegal aliens to come in this country in hordes so that they can vote for the leftist candidates.

01:29:01

Now the other problem is that the immigration problem I don't think will be solved in this country because the

01:29:08

Democrats they don't love immigrants. The Democrats simply want them for votes and the

01:29:15

Republicans want them for cheap labor. So there's got to be certainty.

01:29:23

We have to ask that of the Bible. How does the Bible say borders are to be defined and immigration is to be controlled?

01:29:33

The Bible goes out of its way in Genesis to define the borders of Canaan.

01:29:41

It goes out of its way to define the land that God promised Abraham. And the immigration problem can be solved if the federal government does several things which they're not going to do yet until they become

01:29:54

Christian. Number one they've got to do away with this law which

01:30:00

I was surprised Trump was doing away with that says that people from other countries that come here if they're born in this country they're automatically a citizen of the

01:30:10

United States. Right. That law's got to be changed. Secondly my grandmother was

01:30:19

German and she came over here in the boat at the very early part of the 20th century and those immigrants came over to get jobs to make a better living than they could in their own home country.

01:30:34

They didn't come here for welfare. Today we have immigrants that come to this country to get on welfare and I know this for a fact

01:30:44

I had a woman and her little baby stay with our family we were willing to keep her she was from Egypt because we didn't want her to abort her baby and so we kept her and her baby at our house for a while but she could have anything she wanted in this country.

01:31:07

She could be better off she could take the welfare programs have a better apartment, have a better income, buy better clothes everything at taxpayers expense so the first thing is do away with the welfare system and the welfare system is very incompetent in taking care of people that need welfare most of the money and I learned this back when

01:31:29

I ran for the U .S. Congress most of the taxpayers dollar that goes to welfare doesn't go to welfare of needy people it goes to bureaucrats the church and family can provide welfare far better than the state can.

01:31:45

The state is incompetent to do it but once the church quit doing its duty of diagonal service to the country and building hospitals and orphanages and home for unwed mothers and all those various things when the church quit providing welfare for needy people and families quit providing welfare, the state once again stepped into that vacuum and took over the welfare and with that created a country that's under, that's socialistic so we do away with the welfare system so people won't come over here for the welfare system now this last thing is really controversial but it's biblical we don't allow the building of any mosques or any religious centers for false religions you know one of the greatest myths it's going to get you in trouble

01:32:38

Chris one of the greatest myths in America our sacred cow is that everybody has the freedom to worship the god of their choice, of his or her choice well that's not to be found in the bible the first commandment says thou shalt have no other gods before me and god takes worshipping other idols very seriously so if you worship the god of your choice and it's not the living god of holy scripture he will send you to hell and so we do away with the legitimizing false religions like Islam the church and the family take over welfare we do away with the welfare programs of the united states government we require immigrants who come here to take a course not only on the united states constitution but on the basic ethical philosophical principles of the christian faith and require them to take a vow saying that although they may or may not believe those principles in their hearts they are willing to live by them and not to seek to overthrow them and we're to do away with the law that says you can become a citizen just if you're born in this country ok let me respond to that with perhaps my first disagreement with you in the show and you can respond to me when we return from our final break one of the or a couple of the problems

01:34:10

I see with the prohibition of building mosques is that I find that all or the majority and you could probably say all of the most horrendous vile crimes against humanity and sins against god stem from false religion and that would include a lot more religions than Islam you have the leftists and liberals and even clerics in very large powerful liberal denominations who are perpetuating or helping to perpetuate the infanticide that goes on in this country

01:34:50

I would include all those false religions even liberalism and the christian church well the problem is how do you actually work that out because what

01:35:00

I always try to remind my conservative friends who want the government in some way to be bigger than it is in some cases like when it comes to morality and so forth we forget very often that one day there is going to be a leftist in that office again who may start banning conservative bible believing evangelical christian gatherings and houses of worship because of the fact that they view us as being a threat to the safety and peace of the united states and if you could comment on that when we return from our final break and our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com chrisarnson at gmail dot com don't go away we'll be right back music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music world.

01:38:22

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future. Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

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01:38:45

That's liyfc .org. Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

01:39:00

I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

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01:39:26

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Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:40:29

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. The coronavirus pandemic has rapidly changed our way of life, bringing so many uncertainties.

01:40:43

When will it end? Why do disasters like this happen? How do we deal with anxiety, fear, and the like?

01:40:50

Well, join us each Friday on the program Iron Sharpens Iron, with your host Chris Arnzen and Pastor Joe Jackowitz, as they explore

01:40:59

God's Word for answers to this and other of life's related issues. Tune in at firstloveradio .org,

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01:42:45

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01:42:52

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01:43:13

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01:43:20

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01:43:51

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

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01:45:47

Dr. Moorecraft, before the break, I was giving my first disagreement with you about the banning of all mosques.

01:45:55

Now, let me say that with a qualification. A friend of mine,

01:46:01

Pastor David Dykstra, wrote an excellent book, the majority of which

01:46:07

I agree on, the vast majority. He wrote a book called

01:46:14

Yearning to Breathe Free, Thoughts on Immigration, Islam, and Freedom.

01:46:20

And that book, by the way, folks, can be found at solid -ground -books .com. And in that book,

01:46:27

Pastor Dykstra makes the case, not for banning all mosques, but from preventing

01:46:35

Muslims from immigrating here if they have an agenda that's discovered where they are not yearning to breathe free.

01:46:44

That Ezra Lazarus poem that's at the base of the Statue of Liberty, which people abuse, liberals abuse that poem a lot by thinking that we're just supposed to have open -stretched arms for anybody who wants to come here.

01:47:01

A key factor in that is yearning to breathe free. And if it is known that there are

01:47:06

Muslims or others who want to overthrow the government, who want to establish

01:47:12

Sharia law, etc., etc., those people should be prevented from immigrating here.

01:47:17

But other than that, as I was saying before the break, I have a fear of anybody, whether they are conservative or liberal, wanting to increase the power of the government in areas involving religion and other areas, because sometimes we think that there's always going to be somebody with whom we agree in power, and as we all know from the pendulum swinging back and forth, we could have ultra -leftists in power one day banning evangelical

01:47:49

Christianity from this nation. But if you could comment. Well, first of all, that sounds like a very good book.

01:47:55

I'm going to have to get it and read it. David Dykes. Yeah, D -Y -K -S -T -R -A. Secondly, I'm glad you brought up what you brought up before the commercial, because I can see how people can misunderstand what

01:48:08

I said with such a brief comment that I made. I'm talking about goals.

01:48:16

What are the Christian goals for American society? If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there just as good.

01:48:25

That you have to have goals. What do we as Christians want of this country?

01:48:31

What do we want it to be? What are the ultimate goals, and where do we get those goals? We get them from the scriptures. So, first of all,

01:48:39

I said in my comment, this isn't going to happen anywhere soon. That there's something that has to happen first, before the welfare system will collapse, before public schools will end, before we outlaw the building of not just mosques, but temples,

01:48:59

Buddhist temples, and the like. Those things are not going to happen, and we shouldn't try to force them to happen, until something else happens first.

01:49:11

And that is, we win the hearts and minds of Americans to the gospel of Jesus Christ and to biblical law.

01:49:18

That's our primary goal. Of all of our attempts to reform society and to reconstruct it according to the

01:49:26

Word of God, the spearhead of all of our actions has got to be evangelism, and the leading of people to faith in Christ, and then

01:49:37

Christianizing Christians, and helping Christians to think and live in terms of the

01:49:44

Word of God and the laws of God. So, our goal is not for a small group of people to take over the government and enforce all these biblical goals upon the country, leading to a great time of bloodletting.

01:50:02

Nobody that I know wants to do that. I certainly don't want to do it. I see the stupidity of it.

01:50:08

All attempts at top -down reformation have failed. The reformation must begin with the bottom -up.

01:50:19

It must begin with the grassroots. That's the great difference in Europe.

01:50:27

The German Lutherans tried, as great as Luther was, the Lutherans tried top -down reformation.

01:50:34

Let's convert the great princes and the great nobles of Germany, and that will force the people under them to all become

01:50:43

Christians. But the reason that the Calvinistic branch of the reformation spread and succeeded is because it was from the grassroots.

01:50:55

I read about an archaeological dig somewhere in Europe of a peasant's house and barn, going back to the 16th century.

01:51:07

And in digging up the foundation of that barn, they found wrapped very carefully in burlap

01:51:12

Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion. You know,

01:51:21

Paul said, not many mighty, not many noble, but God has chosen the weak and the base to confound the high and the mighty.

01:51:28

So my goal in life is, I mean, I praise the Lord when wealthy people become

01:51:34

Christians. We need money. It takes a lot of money to conquer the world for Jesus. But the people

01:51:39

I'm after are the everyday, ordinary people, not many mighty, not many noble.

01:51:46

Those are the people that God's going to use to change the world. And once, as we are used of God in leading more and more and more people to faith in Christ, and teach them how to think and live in terms of the word of God, and how the law of God should be the basis for all other laws and ethical principles, then presumably, county by county, those people are going to elect to office people who reflect their views, who love

01:52:21

Christ, who love his law, who believe that God's law in the

01:52:26

Bible is basic to all civil law. And then the more those people are elected to place as authority in our government, the more they're going to pass laws that the people want that represent the goals set forth in the scriptures.

01:52:43

So I hope nobody thinks that what I meant was, let's get a Gestapo and let's take over.

01:52:50

And then let's kill anybody that doesn't believe in biblical law. No. My goal is to lead people in America to Christ.

01:53:02

And then when our number exceeds the number of sand on the seashore and the stars in the sky, we can elect people to represent our views.

01:53:16

And the majority view will no longer be that of anti -Christianity. Now you talk about a day when the leftists will keep us from worshiping

01:53:26

God. Brother, that day is here. Trump might be standing for good, but you got a deep state that's already persecuting

01:53:37

Christians. You have people today who've actually said that people who believe in orthodox historical

01:53:44

Christianity should never sit on a federal court or hold an office in the United States.

01:53:50

That's right. I've heard it. Yeah. So I agree with you in the sense that it's not an immediate goal.

01:53:57

It's one of the ultimate objectives we have in seeking to Christianize America.

01:54:03

It's not giving the government more power than it should have. It's explaining what the civil government is supposed to do.

01:54:14

And as Calvin said in the last chapter of his Institutes on the Christian Religion, it is the purpose of the civil government to obey and enforce all 10 commandments.

01:54:29

Not just the second table of the law, but also the first table of the law.

01:54:34

Now, we are so far from that, and we're so far from thinking in terms of that, we don't know how to work out.

01:54:41

That's why I recommend to your listeners one of the most important books published in the 20th century called

01:54:49

Institutes of Biblical Law by R .J. Rushdie, in which he shows how all 10 commandments are to be applied and understood in the

01:55:02

United States in Western culture today, if Western culture is to return to its Christian roots. By the way, we have to go to some listener questions before we run out of time.

01:55:11

Yes, sir. We have Cynthia in Findlay, Ohio, who says, When I speak to friends who lean left and defend the welfare program and other such programs for the needy,

01:55:22

I explain to them that the Bible explains that family is to provide for family. If any man provide not for his own, especially those of his own household, he is worse than an infidel.

01:55:34

Not just those living in the house, but other family members as well are to be provided for by their family.

01:55:41

In other words, they are not to be taken care of by the state or even the church if they have family.

01:55:47

If there is a widow, as the Bible describes her as a widow indeed, meaning she has no family, then she is the responsibility of the church.

01:55:59

And the church does have a diaconal responsibility along with the family and maybe even secondarily to the family to take care of those who are in need.

01:56:12

It used to be that it was the church that built the hospitals, the church that built the adoption clinic centers, the people for homeless people.

01:56:26

It was in the early days of this republic the voluntary associations, not the government, but the voluntary associations that took care of people in need.

01:56:36

Being a sailor or a fisherman in the Atlantic Ocean was a dangerous thing in the 18th century.

01:56:43

And so as a result there were voluntary associations of Christians that took care of the widows and the orphans of fishermen that died at sea.

01:56:53

So when we return, get away from the dependence upon the state, thinking the state is omnicompetent to do all these things, which it's not, and go back to the church and the family and voluntary associations taking care of the people in need, it'll be a far different world.

01:57:13

There is one of my very favorite economists, and you might know by his name, it escapes me, but you may think of it, he's a black economist, and he wrote a great book, and maybe as I talk it will come to me, but he wrote a great book called

01:57:31

The State Against Blacks, and he showed how, this is a black man, and he showed how

01:57:40

America's welfare system in the 20th century destroyed the black family.

01:57:50

Yes, I have heard of that book, and that's Walter Williams. Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell, two black men and two of the greatest economists in the

01:58:02

United States. Well, Dr. Moorcraft, I already know that I want you back for part four, because we are out of time, and we still have questioners waiting in the wings to have their questions asked.

01:58:16

Well, tell them to keep waiting and come back for part four, because I love to deal with questions. I have a t -shirt that says,

01:58:21

I have an opinion. You got a question? Well, if you could hang on the line so I can schedule you for our next interview, that'd be great.

01:58:31

And by the way, Cynthia, make sure that we have your full mailing address in Findlay, Ohio, because you've won a free copy of With Liberty and Justice for All.

01:58:39

I want to thank you so much, Dr. Moorcraft, for being our guest today. Folks, don't forget, if you want to purchase a copy of the book

01:58:47

With Liberty and Justice for All, you can go to comprehensivechristianity .com, comprehensivechristianity .com.

01:58:55

And also, don't forget about the church where our guest serves as pastor,

01:59:01

Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia. That website is heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,

01:59:09

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. I want to thank everybody for listening today, especially those who took the time to write.

01:59:15

Once again, I apologize to those of you who I have not been able to ask you or get your question answered, but I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater