Q & A: Christ in the OT (Part 1)

Welcome to No Compromise Radio Ministry. My name is Mike Ebendroth. And today on the show, it's part two of the Q &A on Friday night at the Pillars Conference John Tucker, Pat Ebendroth, and myself but before we get into that just a little bit of Housekeeping housecleaning house sweeping you can order the book cancer is not your shepherd on amazon .com and I don't know if it's gonna turn into Kindle or not.

It's harder for me to do Kindle work so if you're an expert out there and you know how to do Kindle work and you'd able to be able to take the Documents and turn them into Kindle. That'd be awesome. So let's start off asking for free if you could help me I need I think gospel assurance is not Kindle.

Sexual fidelity is not Kindle the newer one cancer is not your shepherd. So if that's the kind of thing you'd like to help With we'll even put your name in the front of the Kindle book. How's that? Right on.

Oh, I just saw the Harrison Perkins Reformed Covenant Theology book a systematic Introduction is out. That looks fantastic. Don't forget Pat Ebendroth's active obedience of Jesus or active obedience of Christ is out along with his book one-year-old book Covenant Theology.

Pretty amazing also working on right now a parenting book 31 day guide to suffering Very very funny also you can go to Heidel blog my friend Scott Clark and I've Been included in a bevy of bevy of great writers there that he has published three or four days a week, of course is his podcast is wonderful and You can get my articles there from flannel graph stuff to from lordship to law gospel.

That's Put me in a tight spot. It's written so kindly nicely you can go there. But anyway great website Heidel blog dot I believe net. Today is part one of the second Q &A that Pat and I did on Sunday school hour with John Tucker at the Pillars Conference talked about things in general and things specifically and things about the Lord Jesus.

Christ in the Old Testament and Progressive Revelation

That's a great question. Can you go too far? How do you avoid going too far or I that's it? We we need to be aware of that. And so but we need to be careful that we don't interpret the Bible like unbelievers.

So we do have the Apostles and we do have Jesus we do have the model and I just can't help but follow the model. But one reason why I went to Isaiah is because it's common with dispensationalist to say Hey, you're that's a foul.

If you only read the Old Testament, you wouldn't come to these conclusions and I want to go I'll hold on you need to read read Isaiah closer. He himself does it. So I think we're seeing a lot of good progress here.

But it's creating conflicts conflicts with seminaries conflicts with scholars conflicts with pastors. But I think good things are happening. I'm getting same is true for for all of us sitting up here getting more and more calls from Pastors more and more calls from seminary students, you know kind of missionaries don't tell.

It's one of those things I like to say as I say on the pactum a lot once you see it. You can't unsee it and you just start you start seeing the connections and we're not doing weird things like well You know, there's wood used in the temple and you know, they used wood for the cross, too.

We're not that's not what we're doing. At all. So another thing I didn't talk much about it. My message would be the nature of progressive revelation. It's progressing so in Hebrews 1 in these last days he's spoken to us through his son don't don't go back whatever you do don't go back, so I I Realize I'm I sound like I'm critiquing and complaining and that's true, but I'm super excited.

I mean the the world right now in Evangelicalism not entirely but in in a good way the world is a change in. And and it's exciting I think and it's exciting to be a part of it and helping people to see.

Brian I think there could be an error with some Christ centered redemptive historical folks and there has been an error when they take for instance the book of Judges and Instead of even understanding what judges was about.

Every chapter just turns into this is who Jesus is. And so I want to make sure when I'm teaching through an Old Testament book That I'm not ignoring what's happening there and just immediately pointing to Christ when I preach through Ecclesiastes a while ago, and I wanted to make sure when you're Listening to me you're understanding Ecclesiastes better.

But then you're also appreciating this Christ who's going to come who's the opposite of vanity and all his vanity. So we want to make sure we don't do what and I'll name his name Tim Keller would do that very often in judges.

I didn't really learn judges. I just learned. But there was one who didn't do you know. People did what was right in their own eyes and at least Jesus came along and he didn't do that. He did what the father did.

The other thing that's happening is if you think about analogy of Scripture when you put all the scripture together and form a cohesive whole in a systematic theology way the dispensationalists say You can do that.

But in Bible interpretation push that to the very end to check to see if your results are fine and we're saying your presuppositions that you have in systematic theology and Understanding even of the word Lord Yahweh or the triune God that's front-loaded when you come to the text.

Don't you already have a lot of preconceived notions that you have about the scripture and systematic theology and biblical theology? You're coming to the text knowing what the Bible says later. And so we're saying analogy of the faith systematic theology.

Progressive revelation tied together in a bow starts early. They say push it to the very end so they can keep the future for Israel. Analogy of scripture.

Is.

If you look at other passages that are similar to the passage you're looking at kind of kind of a cross-reference. But analogy of faith, I think it's more. I look at all the Bible together. It teaches a coherent divine mind systematic theology like what's the Bible teach about the names of God and I have that already in my mind before I come to the text that I've already been taught about so.

Maybe you've got a better definition. No, you just mentioned a couple times. I just want to make sure you explain to us.

From the congregation anybody want to ask anything.

About the topics covered tonight not anything. I think it's such a good question.

None of us are perfect. We're all learning. It's good to learn to say the word that Arthur Fonzarelli could never say on happy days, right? I was Right to say you're wrong. I tend to I don't trust people very much if they'll never say they were wrong about something ever in the past.

Because we're growing and learning. So there's that I guess my appeal is going to be before you trust anybody trust Scripture and That's why the historic confessions that those have gone before us have said that's why we interpret Scripture with Scripture.

The only infallible interpretation of Scripture is Scripture. I Think that's reasonable. That's way better than saying, you know, you should trust me. Or you should trust RC Sproul. You could trust him now if you could talk to him because he's in heaven, but you get the idea, right?

So It's good to have teachers. But I so badly even tonight in reading texts with you Wanted you to see it yourself. Because if I don't think you're seeing it, I don't think you're buying it and I think that's good.

So.

It's good to trust people but only in so far as you should trust people trust the Lord ultimately. But it is good to see what what did Jesus say about this? We are called to be Bereans and that's interesting because the Bereans work together.

There was no one single Berean. They were working together as Christians to try to find out if what Paul was saying is true. So I I'm longing for the day that we get back to Good being good Bereans together paying attention to what Scripture says about Scripture and I think most of your gut Level instinct.

Probably is when you hear someone say you're not allowed to interpret Scripture with Scripture. You're like That's baloney. I That that's a bunch of goofball stuff, and I think that's a good instinct, but your next pastor.

When John goes to heaven or Jamaica or something. But your your next pastor may be being trained right now in a seminary that's conservative evangelical Bible believing maybe fundamentalist even and Being trained in post-enlightenment hermeneutics and you should know that ahead of time.

So I love it that you're asking the question then who should we trust? Maybe in the secondarily it is healthy to see what Christians before us before us have taught. How is it that Christians have been talking and speaking for a long time?

They've not been saying things like don't interpret the new in light of the old in the old light of the new they've been saying one divine author ultimately many human authors. So I I'm it's fascinating to think about the Enlightenment and its effects so and if I could add to that.

When you study the Confessions as Pat was talking about and you realize okay in the 1600s in Switzerland they believe the same thing as the 1500s in Germany and the 1700s in England and the 1900s in Princeton, New Jersey, and they're all.

Different time periods different languages and they're all coming to the same conclusions that really helps me. Secondly aren't you glad for the main things in the Bible a child could understand them.

We understand what sin is we understand what death is. We understand what a sacrifice is you read about Jesus and we don't know how the virgin conception happened. But we know it's true and we know he's sinless and he dies for sinners.

He's raised from the dead and those who look to him will never be disappointed. And so whether that means there's a future for Israel or not or all these other things. We know we can trust the Lord Jesus.

And so it's important to study these things tonight. But I don't want to I didn't want it to go without me saying so many things in the Bible are super simple. The fool says in his heart. There's no God.

What does that mean in the Hebrew? The fool says in his heart. There's no God and so How can children understand Bible stories about Jesus because they're easy to understand. There are difficult things in the Scriptures.

Of course Paul says that Peter says that about Paul in 2nd Peter chapter 3, but there are so many Super simple things in in Scripture that we just take by faith, right? It's a glorious ruin. I Mean most of us have been influenced by Dallas Seminary and they're the ones that filled majority of pulpits in the baptistic world.

And so you have think of like a Charles Stanley or you think of Chuck Sandal? You think of John MacArthur you think of Moody most of the J Vernon McGee most of the people on the radio that we would know about are popularly write books are Dispensationalist and so that's probably why we're all in this environment of dispensationalism.

You only get one tonight this year last one last week.

I had lunch with a good friend pastor of mine and he's a dispensationalist and we had a great lunch. So get understand that because we agree on the gospel life-death resurrection ascension of Jesus. And I think it's a matter of time before he prays the prayer and comes over to the other side.

So.

But go ahead. I didn't let you ask your question. So mate one thing I think is Okay, one thing that's kind of interesting is okay think Protestant liberalism. Whether it's the United Methodists or the Presbyterians or the Lutherans or the Baptists, so we've got you know, post.

You know that Machen was having a fit. Okay.

1920s.

1900s and so they're denying supernatural things and you've got guys like Darby the founder of dispensationalism. 1800s you've got then Lewis Barry Chafer founder of Dallas seminary. Presbyterian. Hey, well those those guys don't even believe the Bible is the accusation.

So what should we do? Is how Chafer's thinking let's get rid of the Westminster Confession of Faith because that's Presbyterian and Presbyterians are liberal and Let's start over. Just reading the Bible and we're gonna start in Genesis.

Well, he's gonna come to some good conclusions because he's taking the Bible seriously doing word studies trying to figure it all out but he's. He's coming to immature conclusions. Right. He it takes him a while to get to the New Testament.

And if you don't have the New Testament you come to some interesting conclusions about the lesser son the nation Israel and so they're taking all that and not looking at the whole they don't have Maturity on their side and Chafer says some really weird things like, you know, just Jesus was raised only for the church.

He wasn't raised for believing Jews. That's crazy McCrazy sauce, okay, so because he's raised for our justification that means Jews wouldn't be justified. I mean there. He tried to reinvent the wheel and when you try to reinvent the wheel, it's usually square.

Right. It's just not helpful and Wolver did the same kind of stuff. And so I kind of am sympathetic if you throw away all of the history and the confessionalism. And you try to start over think about how many crazy mistakes Pat Ebendroth is gonna make.

Lots of them. Oh, how about there were Presbyterians who still believe the Bible was true. They weren't all liberal and How about the Westminster Confession? It's not inspired but Actually, there's a lot of really good water under the bridge there.

So I'm kind of sympathetic when you try to just start over you start saying really weird things. That ought not be said that way. So I'm kind of sympathetic toward dispensationalists in that sense. But I Don't know if that helps but it helped me vent.

So thanks for allowing me a little time on the council at counseling chair. I Love dispensationalists. I love I love helping them because they believe the Bible is true. And it's you just start showing them things and you can't unsee what you see and guess what?

Guess who God's firstborn son is Israel. Oh. Keep reading guess who his ultimate firstborn son is Jesus and guess what? They both can't be ultimate and now all of a sudden you're on your way to not being a dispensationalist anymore.

Thank you.

All right, any other other questions?

Sure. Well to repeat the sentence for the tape.

Digital.

VHS beta. Is the cancer book written for believers or unbelievers or what an unbeliever benefit. I wrote it as a Christian to Christians but I wrote it in kind of it's not really technical and. And so it's amazing when people are in a foxhole are on their deathbed.

What they'll read and so I already have a connection with people as I was writing it because I've had cancer now. This is the second time in that brush with kovat death. So it's not just a theoretical thing.

And so I've already had people from our church say I bought the book and I'm giving it to my unbelieving friend and if the Lord wants them to pick it up and read it they will and so The back of the book it says in in quotation marks you have cancer and I talked about hearing those words for the first time.

You know right where you were who was there how it affected your family? And so I'm really hoping since the gospel is Presented in the in most every chapter that I'm hoping unbelievers will read it kind of a neat little story.

I said to the nurses at Dana-Farber two weeks ago when I went in for my monthly checkup. They asked me how I am and kind of emotionally I'm not really as happy or joyful and the medicine kind of affects me that way sometimes.

I just feel like crying. And so they were asking me about that. I said, but I did finish the cancer book and she said well. How long did it take you to write it? I said, oh about 12 days 10 days and they they couldn't really believe it and I said well AI works wonders.

And I said I have a I'll have a copy for you next month. And she said oh that would be wonderful and I showed her a picture of it. She said oh, that's really neat. And I said, oh my daughter helped design this that or the other and She said well, why don't you put it in the gift store downstairs?

And I said that would be a great idea. At a Jewish hospital. Okay. I said it's distinctively Christian. She said I don't think that'll matter so I went downstairs to the gift shop and there's a little book Nook there with a bunch of keto for cancer books and how to eat right if you have cancer and some Buddhist books on cancer Survivors, so I'm going to try to get it into the bookstore.

The gift store at Dana-Farber Cancer Hospital. And if I can do that that I'm gonna call up John Hopkins MD Anderson Mayo UCLA, etc. So I I'm hoping that it will really help people. Even if they're unbelievers because I think they will listen since I can say I have cancer.

I know what you're going through.

Pastoral Encouragement for Sufferers and Unbelievers

Yeah, and I think Lynette too. I'm on page 101 of his book. He notes from a quote from Octavius Winslow. He says we must remark in the outset that in the sovereignty of God sickness has often proved a means of conversion.

Speaking figuratively the sickbed has become a converting bed and and so ultimately then, you know, you can use this book as a means to communicate with your relative and and Tell her about Jesus Christ and and use this book as a springboard to do so and maybe it will become a converting bed.

So we'll pray to that end. So. Well, thanks folks for being attentive tonight. We appreciate your time and we look forward to seeing you tomorrow morning at 930. Have a good evening. Thank you.

Well that wraps up the Q &A Alliance, Ohio Community Bible Church John Tucker Mike Avondale Pat Avondale. You can get my books at amazon .com. Can't cancer is not your shepherd. It is out 31 day guide.

I wrote the first 16 days the last 16 15 days are from Thomas Watson Thomas Brooks and some of those guys. If you need bulk that is 10 or more. You can email me Mike at no compromise radio.

Calm.