Responding to Cringe Atheist Memes

Welcome back to another episode of Revealed Apologetics. I'm your host Eli Ayala, and today we're gonna do something a little fun in Edumacational, okay,

I have collected a wide variety of memes atheist memes that I have found to be rather cringy and If I can give it just a quick shout out

I found it on a Atheist Facebook group called

Anti -theist, okay, and it's I guess it's just a bunch of anti -theists and atheists and and all these you know sorts of sorts of people posting a bunch of memes and things and posts

Against religion Christianity. Oh, oh you you You if it crosses your mind you're like, oh,

I think I saw it's probably from this from this Facebook group So they're pretty bad. But at the same time,

I do know that memes are pretty popular And so it might be useful to kind of plow through some of these they're pretty bad

And and what makes it difficult is when reading through it or if you kind of go through the posts like on social media

People post this as though like this is like some profound Insight.

Okay, they're pretty bad If I were an atheist I would still find these cringe some of them are cringe more cringy than others others

It's kind of like okay, you know, let's interact with that a little bit. But for the most part, they're pretty bad and it's a good

I think a good opportunity to apply some some logic to you know, the fallacies inherent in many of them and You know, you can do think you can do this in any number of ways, right?

So I don't typically interact with people on facebook threads Especially in these specific groups because you can kind of get a feel that you know people post certain things.

They're probably Not the kind that's probably not the best context to kind of engage in like a debate.

Okay Um, but maybe maybe it is maybe that's your cup of tea and you've you've had some great discussions in that context for me

Um, I have not found them to be very useful. Although I would imagine that There are exceptions but for the most part, um,

I just see these things online and and uh, you know uh,

I shake my head and sometimes I take the time to Do the work so that you don't have to okay

Uh, so so there you go So just waiting a couple of moments here for people to kind of hop on.

Uh this live here Once again, my name is eli ayala. I am the founder of revealed apologetics

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I have created courses On apologetics that cover a wide variety of topics that folks can check out on my my channel

But if you're just here and you're kind of like I don't need any of those things I'm just here to kind of listen in that's perfectly fine as well.

I appreciate you being here So let's dive right in we don't want to waste too much time

Okay, first i'd like to say hello to people in the comments. I love you. Eli. Well, thank you very much.

I appreciate that Yes, they may come for me and I don't care what what

I find interesting is As I mentioned before I don't typically get into too much of the comment sections in my videos or Posts and things like that because I don't want to get sucked into the black hole so to speak

But it's always interesting because I get notifications on my phone when someone posts a message Um there these people will write

These long posts almost like essay worth, you know of writing. It's gonna commenting, you know,

Eli You know, you're you know stupid or your view is, you know, whack or whatever whatever they write

And I feel so bad for them because you know, i'll scroll through them like man. This is really long, you know, and I don't read it.

So literally the person wasted Wasted their time sitting at the keyboard writing this long thing

When someone writes a comment geared towards me and they start with an insult then

I typically don't read it Now you do have people who don't agree with me and they're really respectful and I read that and I say, you know what?

Maybe i'll interact with this person because it looks like they could actually have a mature conversation And I know that christians can be guilty of that as well

So other christians who disagree with me start a comment with an insult Um, I typically don't engage a face -to -face.

I don't mind engaging but I don't get sucked into the uh, the comment section It is a very dark very dark dark place

Um, so, all right. Well, um, let's jump in i'm going to minimize myself. I don't want you guys to be scared off I'm a big old face on the screen.

We're minimized here. There we go Uh, let's see here. Aaron says Everything atheists say is bad

They just don't have the knowledge necessary to properly critique christianity because it takes effort to know christian theology

Um, I can't say that for every atheist, but yes a large portion of atheists

Definitely within the where I got these memes from that would very much Categorize a lot of the folks that um post there

They don't have the background knowledge to accurately critique the view and there are some good ways to critique christianity.

Obviously, I think they fail But there can be better ways to go about it that show an understanding of at least what we're trying to say in some basic areas, um, but I think a lot of some people

They hate christianity so much And they're so convinced that religion and christianity are just this dumb mythological fairy tale stuff

That in disrespecting the view they're critiquing They don't actually do their homework and properly represent the view that they're critiquing and they they end up having egg on their face as a result so Um, so yeah

All right Well, let's jump right in okay, we have meme number one

Uh, this meme is uh, this is a fun one, right? Okay, uh this person posted, uh, you know

Someone holding up a sign. Okay, and this meme reads, uh, there are no gods. No devils.

No angels No heaven or hell there is only our natural world religion is but myth and superstition

That hardens hearts and enslaves Minds, okay. Well, um, if you're reading that there are a couple of things that should pop up into your into your mind, right first Just take the statement.

There are no gods, right? That's a that's a very strong assertion of knowledge, right?

The claim is essentially stating that god doesn't exist Okay, god or gods don't exist.

And so the critical question here that we're going to ask okay, if you if you're if someone said this in conversation or if you

Um feel compelled to interact, uh in this, you know on a post that might post something along these lines

You're going to want to ask How does one defend that claim? There are no gods. There are no devil.

How do you know that? How do you know that right now? of course the common, you know village atheist response might be something along the lines of Well, there's no evidence for god, right?

Okay, and of course we're going to disagree with that. I think that everything is evidence for god I won't rehash the reasons why

I think that here but you guys know my position hopefully But let's suppose let's kind of bite.

For example, let's let's just let's just bite the comment here Suppose it were true that we didn't have evidence for god's existence, right even in that scenario the lack of evidence doesn't logically entail or logically conclude that god doesn't exist as The saying goes right the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence and that's true

And so the claim remains unjustified and indefensible right as it stands How would someone defend that you can put up a sign right but putting up a sign and making an assertion

Doesn't demonstrate your view is true nor is it evidence that your view is true, right? Now let's like kind of move on a little bit.

So the meme also says there is only our natural world Okay, again, that is a statement

About literally the nature of reality that nature is all there is right? But how can one assert that with certainty on their own perspective on what basis do they claim?

Exclusive knowledge about the nature of reality you see for the christian

You don't have to you don't have to believe what the christian says But at least it makes sense within the christian system

That we could make assertions about the nature of reality And that within our worldview it makes sense because we hold the idea that there is a god

Who created and defined reality and revealed? Aspects of reality to us such that we could know it

Now you don't have to believe that you could reject that but within the christian worldview that makes sense that we could

Know various aspects of the nature of reality But on an atheistic worldview, how could an atheist stand there?

And assert that there are no gods. There are no devils. There are no angels. I mean, how would they know that?

Now one way that they could argue is that the idea of god is logically incoherent

But i'd be interested to hear that argument, right? But um, I don't see how someone could um

Could actually um, you know demonstrate that in any meaningful way, okay A lot of these atheist types these popular atheist types often hold to kind of like an empirical epistemology in terms of which knowledge is gained through Sensation and experience but but even on that view

Um, you cannot demonstrate empirically That there are no gods

Or no devils or no angels. So this is again. It's just an assertion Uh with no foundation no no way of defending such an assertion

Okay. Now the meme continues religion is but a myth again once more How do you know this?

Right the blanket statement lacks any substantiation whatsoever It fails to engage a lot of what christians and religious people often say when defending their view

There are some pretty lame arguments out there on the christian side and the side of those who hold to religious perspective

But let's be let's be honest, I mean they're not everyone who believes in a god, right?

Gives like these completely idiotic and stupid reasons why they believe it I mean, obviously it's this is a debated issue.

You have intelligent people on both sides debating the issue so to Hand wave and just say oh, it's all a myth

I mean, that's just intellectual lazy, which ironically is you know, uh, what christians are often accused of being okay

So when someone says religion is a myth, you know, cool That's that's an assertion. Yeah, your assertion needs an argument alongside it so that we can actually engage, uh in the details.

Okay now uh, it claims that religion is uh

This this meme here religion is a superstition That hardens hearts and enslaves minds.

Okay, and so here we face another problem Okay If god does not exist

And atheism were true Okay What does it even mean? to harden a heart

Are we talking about the literal organ in in the chest? Right atheists often use uh, kind of these metaphorical language without accounting

For the philosophical implications of those metaphors. They can't even justify the metaphor the metaphorical

Notion of a hardened heart you see within a biblical worldview the heart doesn't refer to the organ in your chest rather it is the center of one's being or the seat of the will it could even refer to the mind or Uh, even the soul if if uh, if you want to take it that way from within a christian worldview

Hardening hearts makes sense. Okay. It's there's a sense in which it's metaphorical and there's a sense in which yes

A person's heart can be hardened but on atheism. Uh, what does that look like to harden someone's heart?

Okay Um, what does it look like to harden someone's uh, uh brain functioning, right?

everything they say with respect to their atheism is just something their brain is fizzing out because of You know the laws of physics acting upon, uh, you know

Acting upon us. Okay. Uh, so hardened hearts softened heart doesn't matter, right?

Um, you know if atheism were true and metaphysical naturalism is the case and you know

All that exists is matter in motion. Uh, what what does it even mean to harden a heart? Okay.

Now when we say when when someone says that religion enslaves minds, okay Um, it's interesting here because enslaving of the mind obviously has kind of pejorative

Undertones, right? Okay. It seems like the person is implying here that you know, it's not good

That minds are enslaved right they're making a sort of implicit moral judgment here

But again, we need to ask the question in a godless universe By what standard?

Are they appealing to? If there's no god, right? There's no god who serves as the foundation for moral objectivity

On what basis can this person argue that enslaving minds is a wrong thing to do?

Okay, there's no objective standard, right? So if one rejects the existence of god What grounds do they have to criticize religion for allegedly hardening hearts and enslaving minds?

Okay Again, the interesting thing here is they reject god with their mouths Yet they assume things that only make sense if god exists

Okay. Um, and so again, you know, this is filled with uh, Statements and assertions, but it doesn't really give us anything.

Uh interesting Okay All right, I see some people here commenting let's see if there's anything worth clicking on All right, okay, sorry, there we go

All right. Let's move on to meme number two. Okay Boom. Okay.

So here we have we have A quote here. Okay. Let's let's read through this here.

This is a quote from friedrich nietzsche Okay, it says hatred of the world well, let's read let me read the whole thing before I kind of break it down so so it says here christianity was

Uh from the beginning essentially and fundamentally life's nausea and disgust with life merely concealed behind Behind masked by dressed up as faith in another or better life hatred of the world

Condemnations of the passions fear of beauty and sensuality a beyond invented the better to slander this life uh,

I mean Okay. All right. I mean It sounds profound but I mean, sorry.

I know friedrich nietzsche is uh is considered a smart guy Uh, but again, this doesn't seem uh, you know to have any weight at all, right hatred of the world

Right condemnations of the passions fear of beauty and sensuality a beyond invented

Uh, you know to bet uh to better To slander this life as he says here.

Okay. Well, let's take a look at this Okay It's not the biblical position

To hate this world Okay Now well, you know, we're not supposed to love the world

Yes Words have meaning in their context, right? We're not called to hate the world as though like this existence

When the bible says that we are not to love the world it talks about the worldly systems the worldly and ungodly philosophies of and ways of thinking the elementary principles and so forth

It doesn't literally mean to hate this existence as we long for uh, you know some

Blissful future right? Okay when god created everything The bible says that he said it was good, right and we acknowledge that sin has corrupted the world and there are many things wrong

With it, but christianity doesn't teach us to despise the world in favor of some nebulous afterlife

Okay, this is a common misconception. But in fact god calls christians to be active and engaged in the here and the now not to be so Um preoccupied with heaven that they become ineffective here on earth

Okay, if people think christianity teaches to hate the world, they're just simply Mistaken and not understanding what the bible, uh means when it speaks of not loving the world, okay

Context, uh, it's simple. This isn't even like a hard thing. Uh, but you know when someone comes off very confidently, you know

They'll post these things. They think they're saying something profound Uh, but but it's not really the case now regarding nichi's mention of hatred of the world condemnations of the passions

I think it's important to clarify what is meant by these terms. Okay christianity

Doesn't promote a blanket condemnation of the passions Okay Nor does it instill a fear of beauty and sensuality?

I mean that just sounds That's right. We fear beauty. I mean, this is so dumb, right?

Uh christianity recognizes beauty and sensuality as good and valuable within their proper context right

The concept of beauty presupposes an objective standard by which we can distinguish between what is true and beautiful And what is not?

What is false? What is ugly all these sorts of things? We have a standard by which to measure Sensuality as well sensuality within christianity is viewed as a positive aspect of human experience when it is aligned with moral and spiritual guidelines laid down in god's word

Okay. Now when sensuality is detached from those standards, then of course it's going to lead to moral chaos and going to lead to harm right,

I I hope nichi's not arguing that all sense of all uh senses of sensuality are

Are good and virtuous. I mean, I I'd be interested to hear his view on that Okay, does does he does he hold to a complete freedom to?

Um unleash our sensuality and so forth in any way that we want Um, if so, there's no objective standard then, you know, uh, there's a problem there so claim

The better to slander this life, right? We need to kind of look at this for a second. So Here's here's my question.

How does he know that the concept of an afterlife is merely an invention, right? People say this is a fairy tale.

Okay, that's an assertion Okay Now christians can provide evidence for the afterlife

Okay, part of our evidence can be we can there's nothing wrong with referring to the resurrection of jesus

I think the historical arguments for the resurrection of jesus are very powerful and persuasive but of course

We can't speak endlessly about the historical data because we do know that there are people who reject the evidence and data that we put forth

Because of course there are deeper issues at play here issues of presuppositions Right people presuppose certain things that are going to dictate how they understand that data

So it's useful in one sense, but in another sense we need to go at a deeper level But to say we offer no evidence of it.

I mean, that's I would challenge that. Okay So if you say it's it's afterlife is an invention again, that's an assertion in need of an argument

Okay, and so he's not niche He's not in a position to definitively know whether an afterlife exists or not, right?

His assertion pretty much presupposes the truth of his own perspective And so I think he's inherently begging the question there unless he offers some kind of argument in somewhere

I'm, not an i'm not a nichian scholar. So maybe he gives arguments elsewhere But uh as it stands here as as it is this it's it's a meme here with just a quote

And I don't have context here. Um that that's what I have to say about this here I don't I don't find it convincing.

I don't find it profound. It just seems like uh, Assertions and the misunderstanding of how christianity understands the things that apparently he thinks.

Um, you know religion or christianity specifically, you know Doesn't like right we we hide from beauty, right?

We we invent things, right? Oh, well, give me an argument Right. I mean, isn't that fair to ask for an argument?

Yeah, I think it is All right Let's see here Meme number three

Let's go here. Boom. All right This is a fun one. This is a fun one here Okay.

So now this this third meme Says the following right a little girl is asking her mother

Why do people believe in god mom and the mother responds? God is a coping mechanism for people who feel insecure

Fearful to ask questions and cannot deal with the harsh realities of life Okay, this someone actually posted this

Okay Is actually posting it. Okay Uh this someone actually

Put this here and thought it was it was a good thing to post I mean, this is this is this is cringe

This is when I say cringe that this is one of the ones that I find very cringy. Okay now, uh

The the reason why I think this is so cringy if you think of it from a purely logical perspective

Okay I think it's ineffective as an argument or an assertion or you know something to put forth

I think it's ineffective because the statement is entirely reversible

Isn't that true? Okay, what good is a statement an assertion an argument or whatever when it's reversible?

Okay, what why can't I say? That atheism is a coping mechanism for people who feel insecure and are fearful about one day being judged by a god who will hold

Them accountable for all that they've done Right. Why can't we argue that atheists cannot deal with the harsh realities of a god who is righteous holy and just And who will one day judge them, right?

of course They they resort to disbelief as a coping mechanism to make themselves feel better You see we can we can do the same thing, right?

It says this isn't uh, this isn't anything profound Okay Now an atheist is going to is most likely going to reject that characterization just as a theist is going to reject

You know the characterization of of their own beliefs, right? But the fundamental problem with statements like this is that it's entirely reversible and and therefore it lacks any substantive value as you know

In terms of offering a perspective, okay It doesn't engage in actual reasons and evidences and arguments that people put forth for their position

It just tries to give kind of a a psychological analysis. Well name that tune, right?

I mean you you can give a psychological analysis and so can I right? Uh, you know someone's like oh religion is cognitive dissonance.

Okay atheism's cognitive dissonance Oh, no, it isn't you're misrepresenting me. Okay. Well then religion isn't cognitive dissonance.

You're misrepresenting me You see how silly this is very surface level, okay And it's unfortunate because on the internet apparently this uh passes for many um as as good argumentation or you know

Somehow, you know the person posting this is making some uh profound uh point Um, but of course it it really is very very shallow

All right. All right. Let's jump to our next meme Let me see here in the comments

What? Oh your comment is worth clicking on. Okay stingray says hello all

Our brain fizzes one way and and one another what's the difference whatever it is

It can't be moral in a godless universe Why is my comment not worth clicking?

Well, it is worth clicking. So I clicked it. So there you go There you go stingray All right, let's uh, let's move on all right, let's see here

What do we got? What do we got? Let's see boom All right.

Let's take a look at this one over here. Okay, so this meme says

Uh, you don't get rich writing science fiction. Actually, you you can get rich writing science fiction if it's good, right?

Um, anyway, you don't get rich writing science fiction If you want to get rich you start a religion and this apparently is from l ron hubbard

Whose name should be familiar to some people? Um, all right, well, let's let's break this down.

So what's the problem here, right? As I see it the problem with this statement is that even if we assume it's true, right?

That some people get rich by starting religions notice that that has no bearing or logical connection

Uh on whether any particular religion is true, right including christianity, is it okay some people

Use religion to get rich, but that's irrelevant as to whether it's true Okay, the misuse and abuse of a religious perspective does not speak to its falsity, right?

There are individuals who use religion as a means to gain financial wealth And heck I was just accused in the last video that i'm in this for the money

Okay, that that's why I do this apparently, okay So so that you know,

I do it for the money. I try to take advantage of ignorant people I mean, you know, of course I do it for the money, right?

You guys see the the bling bling that I wear, you know, it's bling bling actually a thing Y 'all edit that out of this video, but you get what i'm saying, right?

even if it were true that someone tried to uh get rich by Um, you know using religion it doesn't mean the religion's false and just and and if the implicit claim in this is that christianity was

Invented so as to get rich. I mean historically that's that's demonstrably false Okay, I mean historically it's false, right?

There's there is substantial historical documentation, uh documentation indicating that early Followers of jesus didn't get rich.

In fact, many of them faced persecution and suffering and this would include the apostles Okay, who endured all sorts of hardships and martyrdom and so forth.

Okay. Now someone could say well all that is myth and it's Unreliable. I mean you could say that but that does you know saying so doesn't make it

So I think history is on the side of the christian, uh at that point, okay Uh, so again, so this this meme doesn't provide us any meaningful insight into the truth of any religious perspective

It's just making an assertion that is really irrelevant, uh to whether a particular religious perspective is

Um is true. All right So again, it's pretty pretty bad All right.

Let's uh, let's see what we got next here Ah, okay this one this one's a fun one.

All right, let's take a look here Now this one says religion stops us from asking questions

And there's almost like an indignant and it has held us back from too long Held us back long enough

Okay All right, so I'm, not sure what this person is referring to. I mean as a religious person myself,

I mean i'm a christian, right? My faith hasn't stopped me from asking questions right Believing that god created all things doesn't mean

I stop inquiring about his creation, right? This just doesn't follow at all Okay uh the belief in a creator actually encourages

In uh my questions and exploration of the world that god created right just because I know god created the world

Doesn't mean I understand everything about how the world works. I mean this should be obvious, right?

Now within the christian worldview the belief that god created an orderly universe As i've argued in this channel before provides a foundation for science itself

Okay, it suggests that the world operates according to consistent laws that can be discovered and understood, right?

And historically that belief has driven many scientists to ask profound questions and seek answers about the natural world okay, so Um, it doesn't make us stop asking even though god did it

Okay That doesn't mean we always know how god did stuff, right?

And science is a wonderful tool to use to explore the beautiful intricacies of god's creation

Okay, so for the christian the exploration and questioning that comes through scientific inquiry and investigation

Actually leads us to glorify god all the more Right very very superficial about well if god did it, but then we don't need to ask any more questions.

That's just stupid and it's false It's just it's just plain false, right? The assertion that religion stops us from asking questions

Seems to imply that religious answers such as god did it discourages asking questions

But even if one ultimately attributes creation to god, right? This doesn't negate the pursuit of understanding from a scientific perspective the mechanisms and processes through which god operates, right science philosophy history

And you know other disciplines are rich fields of study within a theistic framework

Right where each discovery seen as revealing more about god's design his purpose and so forth, okay and so, uh, yeah

Aaron says here Uh as if some of the greatest minds in history weren't christian and then we're going to be led to believe that Their christianity is is incidental to their uh, you know their accomplishments.

It was just a side thing It really didn't it's again. This is the superficial level of argumentation that we're going to find

In people who kind of think along these lines, okay So again, pretty pretty bad

All right. Let's let's move along. What else do we got here? Uh, I told you these are pretty bad, bro. These are pretty bad

Uh, let's see here Okay, oh here's uh, what what movie is that from I don't remember what movie is that from Well Okay Okay.

So here's what this meme says here. It says I used to think that people were rational And you could just show them facts and evidence and they would be open to new ideas

Then I learned about cognitive dissonance Doublethink and the herd mentality

Okay, it's pretty cringe now If someone is so naive

As to think that atheists don't engage in cognitive dissonance doublethink and herd mentality

They need to wake up to reality they need to crawl out from under the rock that they've been living under Okay, these are issues that everyone including atheists can and do engage in.

Okay. This isn't some particular This isn't particular to uh christians and religious people

Okay, I mean the meme says I used to think people were rational And you can just show them facts and evidence, right?

I mean look how naive that is Okay, I keep using this term. It's true Okay, this perspective pretty much assumes that facts and evidence simply just speak for themselves, right?

But of course we know that this is demonstrably false, right? This is a surface level Philosophical error that ignores how facts and evidence are interpreted within the context of one's worldview, which i've

Stated a bajillion times. It's not really original to me. It's not original to van till or bonson

All right, this is this is standard stuff to recognize that our paradigms Impact how we interpret evidence and facts

Okay, so we don't simply show people evidence and facts and like oh you I thought people were rational

They just are shown facts and they and they're open to these ideas. No, of course not. We have our bias

We have our interpretive grids. I mean, isn't that obvious? I mean, this isn't this isn't hard Okay to not recognize

The interpretive role of presuppositions And pre -commitments Is to be philosophically naive

Our worldview shapes how we understand and integrate facts and evidence to form conclusions about things, right?

Simply presenting facts and evidence without considering the underlying worldview. Uh, Assumptions that come along with that is

It's just dumb. It's not it's it's not smart. Okay All right and issues of cognitive dissonance, you know, they mentioned double talk and herd mentality can apply to any belief system including

Atheism, wait, wait, wait Atheism is not a belief system, right? It's a lack of belief, right?

Okay All right So, um, so there you go So basically the meme oversimplifies human rationality and fails to acknowledge the complexity

Of how beliefs are formed and maintained, okay It doesn't provide anything of substance. And so there really is nothing more to say about that particular meme.

I mean, this is pretty bad All right. Let's continue on. What do we got? Let's see All right.

There you go This one's a fun one Uh, let's see here. So this is

I think that's squidward from spongebob, right? And so squidward it looks like squidward is holding a blank piece of paper with the caption

Uh, which says an exhaustively comprehensive list of scientists who proved a god or gods and then of course

You know, the paper is empty and there's there's no, uh, there's no names on it again

This meme obviously is attempting to mock the idea that any scientist has ever proven the existence of god

Pretty much suggesting that the paper is blank because there's no such proof Okay, again, this is superficial.

It's uh ignorant. Okay, and actually, uh Is committing implicitly committing a fallacy?

Okay Um, yeah think about it Science is a method of investigating the natural world

Okay, I I affirm that as a christian Okay, it focuses on observable and testable phenomena, right?

And so expecting science to prove The existence of god who is supernatural is a category error

Okay from within the from within the christian perspective God is a supernatural being and thus not subject to empirical methods of science designed for the natural world

Okay, so someone's like you see well, there's no there's no proof for god. No. Well, no unless you assume

That the only valid way of proving something Okay Is through scientific experimentation, right?

If that's your position, then that's that that's a problem Okay, if you think the only way to demonstrate something is through a scientific proof

That is a fallacy and unfortunately many online atheists who think along these lines believe precisely that That unless you prove something scientifically, you really can't know it

And so our knowledge of things comes through scientific Demonstration or scientific proof.

Okay. Now if you want if you want the label for this, this is often referred to as scientism, okay knowledge, uh, you know only things that are demonstrated by Scientific demonstration are things that we could know so on and so forth

And there are different versions of scientism But but here's the problem if you hold to the position that only things that are demonstrated scientifically

Okay are true Well, here's the question Did you demonstrate that?

namely the proposition That all things are known through scientific demonstration. Did you demonstrate the truth of that through a scientific demonstration?

Well, of course you didn't And so if it's true, it's false. I mean this is this is like low level kind of you know

Reasoning here. Okay. I don't I don't I don't want to be I don't want to sound mean but I mean this is again This is just really really bad

Okay Now does this mean that science has no connection to god? Well, of course i'm not saying that at all

In fact the very foundations of scientific inquiry itself such as the existence of truth the laws of logic the uniformity of nature personal identity over time

Okay, which is required to engage in experiments and draw conclusions, right? Person has to do it do the work, right?

These are I argue in this channel and i've argued before those are best explained within a christian worldview and those transcendental categories presuppose a reality that aligns with christianity not atheism

Okay, and so while science itself Doesn't directly prove the existence of god the ability to do science at all

Is grounded in principles that presuppose a christian theistic framework So think about that I don't use science like the scientific method to prove god because that's not what science is used for however

The principles that science presupposes I would argue requires a transcendent god and more specifically not a generic god

One that is reflective of uh, it requires the christian god specifically

Okay reasons that I will not get into detail here. If you guys watch my channel i've discussed this ad nauseum in various other contexts

Okay All right Let's continue on. Let's see here Let me see if there are any comments here

Alyssa scott says atheist stops us from asking. How do you know?

Uh, yeah, and and many atheists have a problem with asking why I think it was even richard dawkins who said like, you know

The why question is is uninteresting like dude, what are you talking about? It's uninteresting,

I don't know about you I think asking why is super interesting and super important so All right, frank odom, uh asks will this show be available later in its yeah.

Yeah, of course This is live. So when I do my videos live as soon as i'm done Um, it is already on youtube the whole video there so you can go back and watch it.

Okay All right. Let me pull that down All right. Let's continue. Let's continue here

All right, here is our next one, okay, so This next meme here.

It's a picture of a brain and it says It says the human brain is capable of imagining

Magnificent out of this world and bizarre things religion is one of the bizarre things

That's so cringe So again, so this meme attempts to dismiss religion, you know christianity maybe religion in general

As merely a bizarre product of human imagination Okay But think about this.

All right, use your use your noggins now, right? the silliness of this meme Again, and we mentioned this before with respect to other memes lies in its reversibility

Isn't that right? The human brain is indeed capable of imagining magnificent Out of the world and bizarre things by this logic

Atheism is one of those bizarre things. You see what I did there Okay It's just so easily reversible, right

I think atheism is bizarre Because I think the evidence of god is so clear. It's ridiculous to reject the evidence that is found

Round about you. Okay. Now, of course, I believe that because I have a certain worldview, right? Okay, and that's where issues of worldview come in but such a statement

I think is superficial it's cringeworthy That's why I included it And moreover if god doesn't exist

And we're just matter in motion, okay Then the human brain merely produces thoughts based on chemical and physical reactions

Okay, this is purely a materialistic process. So an atheist an atheist that believes in materialism

Okay Um doesn't come to their conclusions through a rational deliberation rather They are determined through physical factors to say and assert what they what they say

And so within that framework, we're not free to choose What we say and the conclusions that we draw and so forth

Our thoughts would be nothing more than the byproducts of the laws of physics acting on our physical brains

Reducing our beliefs to mere chemical reactions, right? This perspective I think really undermines the notion of rationality itself, which is ironic because you know

It's the religious perspective that's trying to be set forth as kind of the irrational view, right? If our thoughts are just the result of material processes then no belief

Including atheism could claim to be rationally superior to any other belief Okay, and so the meme's implication that religion is merely a bizarre imagination of the human brain

Is self -refuting from an atheistic standpoint because they didn't draw that conclusion through a free deliberation

But rather they were determined to fizz the way that they fizz, okay If our brains are simply fizzing out thoughts due to external stimuli

Then dismissing religious beliefs as bizarre, okay or weird or fairy tale or whatever lacks any substantive grounding

Okay, and that should be that should be obvious All right Let's move along here

All right Thank you. Uh, alyssa alyssa says, uh, i'm loving this episode.

We need more of these yeah, I think I think these are fun, uh to take these and kind of interact with them and Again, I think they're good for teaching purposes.

Um, so yeah, maybe i'll do more of these. Thank you for that Uh, let's see here our next meme.

We got Uh a quote from sigmund freud Okay, freud freud

Let's see here Okay, so apparently this is i'm not sure if he said this maybe he did.

Um, I guess it has a little No, it just tells us who he is. But okay, so the meme here reads

Religion is a system of wishful illusions together with a disavowal of reality

Such as we find nowhere else but in a state of blissful hallucinatory confusion

Religion's 11th commandment is thou shall not question Okay Okay, I hope by now, you know how

You would respond to this, right? Well, let's kind of unpack this first Well sigmund freud, uh is often considered the father of psychoanalysis and he's known for his theories.

Um on The unconscious mind and the mechanisms of repression and so forth and he is known for uh, critiquing religion in various capacities

Um, and I believe he thought religion was kind of a way in which people kind of fulfill, you know

Their psychological needs so to speak. Okay, just to give some context here If you don't know who sigmund freud is, you know, you usually learn about him in college or something like that But you can look him up.

There's a lot of information out there about him But let's take a look at the quote here. So freud claims that religion is a system of wishful illusions

Okay, but but again, what question now are we going to ask? Okay How does he know this?

Right. How does he know that? To assert that religion is an illusion and disavows reality

Presupposes that freud himself has an accurate understanding of reality Isn't that right? And this leads us to ask how does freud know the true nature of reality?

Right So freud's view implies that he possesses a superior insight into reality that religious believers lack

Okay, but of course this is an unfounded assumption. We could challenge him on a variety of levels here

Okay, knowledge of reality is complex and cannot be reduced to mere

Material observations. So if he's an a I don't know what his position is, but if he's an atheist of some sort It's not simply saying well, you know,

I know the nature of reality because I just look around me It's you guys who have these weird interpretations of reality, right?

This is kind of like what a lot of people put forth, you know, just a look and see kind of view All right, but if you know anything about philosophical analysis and different worldview perspectives, you know that obviously that's not going

To hold water in any meaningful way Freud continues by saying religion involves a disavowal of reality such as we find nowhere else

But in a state of blissful hallucinatory confusion, but again, i'm going to keep asking the question How does he himself know this as a matter of fact?

How does freud know that he himself is not in a state of hallucinatory confusion? Right.

The problem with this statement here is the same problem with a bunch of the other statements is that the accusation? Can be easily reversed

Okay Okay right, so the claim that and he goes on to say the claim that religion's 11th commandment is

Thou shall not question. I mean again, this is you know Pretty sad, right?

This is just dumb, right? It's a misrepresentation of of Christianity specifically.

I can't speak for other religious perspectives. I don't know what he's referring to here But the bible and passages like isaiah 118 god says come now.

Let us reason together Right, the bible encourages believers to engage in reason critical thinking and so forth, right christianity doesn't shy away from questioning things

Okay, it invites believers to seek understanding and truth with all their minds.

It's one of the ways that we love god with all of our mind Okay, so Again, it's just misrepresentation here freud's critique

I think falls flat here because it fails to accurately represent the nature of christianity specifically

Okay Christianity promotes a reasoned faith Okay, even if you believe christianity is false christianity does not teach that we

Should not use our reason in our mind to um, you know acquire Uh truth and so forth.

Okay And so the problem here ultimately any psychological analysis that freud might apply to religion in general or christianity in particular

Is pretty much reversible on on him and again just with the same as the other memes again makes these statements pretty vacuous and without foundation

All right. Let's take a look here Let's see here

Let's see here So aaron says these are the types of pop culture comments average people hear and have to engage all the time

That is correct discussing these memes even if they're dreadfully shallow is super helpful Well, I appreciate that.

I think i'm going to be doing a lot more of these sorts of things for for just that reason So I appreciate that Uh stingray says if we're just undesigned animals doing what undesigned animals do why is anything we do including religion bizarre?

Yep, that's a great question, right? Very good follower of jesus that unironically likes sardines says in fact religion would actually be better for survival of the fittest in light

Of how it leads to higher birth happiness and basis for goodwill and so forth. Yeah That's true. Yeah, great points

See, I don't need to be here. You guys you guys know all this stuff All right, let's see here let's move on to the next all right, let's take a look here

Uh now this meme here, okay depicts a conversation between two people

Um, the first person says why do you hate god and the atheist responds atheists don't hate god

And then the other person responds. Well atheists provide proof that they hate god and then the atheist replies

Atheism is just a lack of belief right silly rabbit, right? Everyone knows what atheist it's just a lack of belief

And the first person counters look at your own behavior online where you're insulting mocking and rejecting god

That's not a lack of belief and then the atheist responds I mock jar jar binks to one of the worst fictional characters ever right behind scrappy dew and your god

Okay, and then the christian has nothing to say and the atheist stands there, you know asking, you know, sarcastically will will anything else?

Okay now There are a bunch of things wrong with this little hypothetical scenario.

Okay Um because it's pretty inconsistent right notice the atheist initially claims

Ready. I want you to pay attention to this The atheist initially claims that atheism is just a lack of belief in god right however later

They compare god to fictional characters like jar jar binks and scrappy dew Explicitly stating that god is also fictional

And so this clearly indicates that the atheist doesn't merely lack belief in god But actively believes that god does not exist you see that you see what was what was done there

Okay. Oh, I lack belief and that definition often alleviates the atheist from having to offer any burden of proof on their part because to say

God does not exist that requires justification. So what do people do? They adopt a weaker definition.

Oh, I lack belief in god Okay, and what do they do? They think that well if I lack belief in god

I can just sit here and listen to your arguments and throw them over my shoulder No in this particular example this person atheism is not just a lack of belief in god in this specific instance

Because then he goes around and turns around and compares god to jar jar binks and scrappy dew and calls them fictional

Okay, so this this contradiction in this example here Is uh, you know

It comes with bad definitions Okay, they claim it's they claim atheism's merely a lack of belief they do this

Okay, many of them do this to avoid the burden of providing evidence or justification for their for their stance

But their actions and their statements often reveal that they hold a positive belief that god does not exist

Okay I can't speak for everyone but defining atheism as simply a lack has often been used as a strategy

To not have to engage in any meaningful way with the theist All right

So anyway, if atheism were truly a lack of belief there would be no basis for the mocking and insulting behavior observed in this

On in this, uh, you know in this context, right? such actions

Suggest a stronger position than simple non -belief And they reflect an active rejection and denial of god's existence, which is precisely what the bible teaches

Okay, and and again, uh when someone says I lack belief in god The interesting thing is when they think that they're escaping the burden of proof

Um for their position, by the way, I think the christian has a burden of proof and they should offer that burden of proof

But I also think that because these issues are worldview issues both sides of the discussion require, uh have a burden

When you say you lack belief you actually are implicitly claiming That the christian worldview is false

And here's why Because the christian worldview affirms and asserts that all men have a knowledge of god

And so if that's true, then no one quote unquote lacks belief in god Okay, so you don't have to believe what i'm saying as a christian

But when you say you lack belief you don't escape a burden because you're actually implicitly saying that christianity is false

Okay Um, so so again, this just highlights the non -neutral nature of these sorts of disputes and Discussions.

Okay, and so hopefully you guys can see that um inconsistency there All right.

Let's see here Let's see To do All right.

Let's see. Let's move on to another one. Let's see here. Yeah, look at this. So Um, so you could put a stop to atheism right now

All you would need to do is just have a god start existing So why don't you?

Now I want you to pay attention to this meme Okay Atheism Is a lack of belief.

We're not saying that god doesn't exist We just lack belief bro Okay You could put a stop to atheism right now.

All you would need to do is just have a god start existing Which implies what?

That they believe that there is not a god who is existing at the moment And so and so atheism in this context is not a lack of belief either

Okay Uh, so again, I hope you could see this. I mean this is uh, um You know

Uh, let me see here I'll get to your question there stingray. Just give me a moment here Yeah, so I hope you can see this so you have kind of this, you know moving from definition that lack of belief

And then of course you have the implicit hiding underneath that is actually the belief that god doesn't exist

All right, let's see here. I won't do that one. I don't like that one. Let's see Let's take a look at this one so This was pretty cringy when

I saw this here So there was no before life So why do you think there will be an afterlife?

Okay People like this exist Okay There was no before life

Okay You didn't exist before you were born So why would you think that you'll exist after you die?

That's a complete non -sequitur Even if it's true, I don't believe in pre -existence.

I'm not a mormon Uh, but the fact that there was a point in which I did not exist

Has no logical connection as to what I ought to believe with respect to um, you know

What happens to me when when I die? I mean this this is This is just really bad.

I mean I Oh, all right. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm being a little saucy today.

I'm so sorry Uh here here's another one see so Here's what this one says.

I don't want arguments for a god I don't want evidence for a god.

I want proof of a god any god will do Won't settle for your attempts to talk a god or gods into existence

I'm going to need any claimed god to pop into existence now what's said at the beginning here is

Different I mean this down here sounds really weird. Let's take a look here. So I don't want arguments for a god

I don't want evidence for a god. I want proof of a god. Well, um, you know, knock knock, uh, surprise surprise

Actually when you ask for proof what you're also asking is

For an argument for how do you prove something? You prove them by offering arguments

Isn't it When you prove something this is just a basic point of logic, right?

If i'm going to prove the existence of god or prove anything I'm going to have to either offer an argument or what

I offer to demonstrate the existence of something Is going to depend on the nature of the thing we're talking about.

Okay, what seems to be implied here? Okay, and I apologize if this is not what the person's implying but it seems to be the case that proof is simply referring to You know it needs this god needs to pop into existence and I in some way shape or form have to observe it

Okay, and this is what a lot of atheists assume They assume that the only way something can be demonstrated is through some empirical means and I completely reject that I think some things are proven empirically not everything greg bonson in his debate with gordon stein pointed this out

That all things are not proven in the exact same way. He called it the crackers in the pantry fallacy

He said if I were to prove if I wanted to prove to you that there were crackers in my pantry Because of the nature of crackers, okay

I can take you by the hands and I could walk you over to my pantry open the pantry and show you

There it is though. There there are the crackers that that's here they are. Okay, but that is not the same as you know

Proving, you know the uh air pressure in a room It's not the same as you know

Proving the existence of quasars or proving the existence of you know other things that are not empirically verified

Okay And so the way we prove something is going to depend upon the the nature of the thing that we're trying to prove

God is not material and therefore to prove god. We do not do so simply by Empirical means if the person thinks that's the only way that we can know things

That is an arbitrary standard and it is an it is a logically incoherent standard, right?

All knowledge is obtained through observation Okay Let's put that to the test

Did you observe that all knowledge comes through observation? Well, of course you didn't

So if it's true that all knowledge comes through observation then it's false because you didn't come to know that through observation

All right. This is this is this isn't even me being like eli the preceptor this in philosophical literature

This has been blown out of the water. Okay, this is just very very Very very bad. Okay Let's see here

Did it Okay, I actually like the skeletor, um Memes, there's a bunch of bunch of ones.

I used to watch he -man back in the day used to love that cartoon unfortunately I went to go see an episode.

Uh, I went to watch an episode to see you know How how did this show age and man? It's hard.

I it didn't age. Well, so I was beginning to while I was like, man, this is terrible This is like my favorite show as a kid. So nevertheless

There's a bunch of these memes here with skeletor. He says remember If you can't distinguish your religion from a fiction

A third century goat herder could have made up You worship a fairy tale Now i'm assuming he's talking about christianity.

Now if he's talking about christianity, then he's got his Date wrong christianity is not third century christianity is demonstrably first century.

Okay Um and a couple of things here It doesn't even follow

Suppose I couldn't distinguish my religion from some You know fictional story that I that I heard somewhere my inability to distinguish them doesn't entail its falsehood

It just might refer to my inability and ignorance to make the proper distinction.

So it doesn't even follow uh from the first part of this meme to the latter part, so Uh pretty bad all right

Let's see here And this one's bertrand russell bertrand russell,

I don't know I I guess there are some recordings you can hear how I don't know How he sounds but he he's british british.

I think I have a bertrand russell Let me see. I think I have something. I have something from bertrand russell

It might be his history of philosophy Oh boy All right, well i'm not gonna look for it now, but yes,

I do have his philosophy Bertrand russell is a heavy hitter in philosophy But being a heavy hitter doesn't mean you always

Hit the target. Okay This one's here. Here we go. This is a quote from bertrand russell. He says

There is one very serious defect to my mind in christ's moral character And that is that he believed in hell

I do not myself feel that any person who is really profoundly humane can believe in everlasting

Punishment. Okay, that is bertrand russell and if I see the text on the bottom here it is from Why I am not a christian

Okay, so let's take a look at good old bertrand russell By the way, dr.

Greg bonson completely and utterly destroys uh bertrand russell in his Why i'm not a christian pamphlet he uses it as an example as to how to apply a presuppositional approach um, and I think he does an excellent job,

I think It is found in always ready directions for defending the faith if anyone's interested in looking that up in that in that text

But here's what bertrand russell says. He says there is one very serious defect to my mind in christ's moral character

Okay. Now this is very important ready and that it is that he believed in hell Okay, so from his perspective

He thinks that there's a problem with christ's moral character because he believed in something like everlasting punishment

But let's put our thinking caps on again What is required? What are the necessary preconditions for bertrand russell?

to evaluate christ's moral character in an objective sense So as to give us something more than simply his opinion if he's just giving us his opinion then cool

You're just telling us something about you psychologically Okay, uh, but if you're trying to make an argument that somehow christ, um objectively has, you know

His his moral character ought to be put into question, you know in an objective sense Then that presupposes an absolute standard of morality by which to judge

Um jesus and his actions and his beliefs and so forth Okay, so he says I do not myself feel that any person who is really profoundly humane can believe in everlasting punishment

Well, what is the what is the objective standard for what constitutes humane? I mean, what's the standard?

Is it bertrand russell's opinion? Is there some objective standard that he's appealing to? Okay, so again, uh

This very statement here if he is saying this within an objective sense, he thinks there's something objectively wrong

Morally with jesus because he believed in hell If he means that in an objective sense, then i'd like to know

What objective moral standard he's using to therefore then judge, uh, jesus based on his actions and beliefs

Again, there is no foundation Here. All right. Let's uh, let's remove this here.

Okay Um, I hope that that was helpful. I know there are not many comments here.

Well, there are comments. Let me see Um, let me see if there are any questions. I'll try to take a few

Um, and then I'll need to go to bed, okay I I was supposed to work today, but our school was canceled because we had a tornado warning which was pretty scary

We're all hiding in our in our bathrooms and all that, uh that jazz So hopefully the storm is over and we're good to go.

But the plan is I gotta wake up early and go to work So, let me see. I'll take a couple of questions if there are any so give me a moment and I will um put them up on the

Screen here Question. Okay. Here we go

So here's a question from stingray Proverbs 3 5 says trust in the lord and lean not on your own understanding explain why this doesn't mean we're supposed to turn our brains

Off and just believe yeah, so proverbs is giving us general principles It's not saying like, you know, you can't trust anything that your mind tells you.

Okay, ultimately Okay, our minds. Okay. We're given to us by the lord

He calls us to use them But when we reach limitations we ought to trust in the lord

We trust in his wisdom not in worldly wisdom And it's only in that general sense that we don't lean on our own understanding when we're using our own wisdom

Okay, we don't want to lean on simply the things that we think we know we want to see things in the context of How god has revealed it.

Okay. I do believe that the beginning of knowledge is the fear of the lord Okay So we rest on god and his revelation as our foundation we lean and trust on in him

But that's not mutually exclusive to thinking things through Because it is resting upon him and the foundation of revelation that he's provided for us that makes sense out of the very process

Of thinking and reasoning about anything. Okay So if you want true wisdom true knowledge, we reason we think we grapple with things within the context of god's revelation

And then we will make progress in actually coming to learn things about the world Because what we are learning and concluding and so forth are submitted to the authority of god's revelation.

Okay, great question Well, let's see here There frank odom says thank you.

Thank you. Eli. My day consists of writing a z mower listening to apologetics Namely greg bonson lecturers.

I'll listen to this tomorrow. Well, thank you so much. That's awesome Yeah, I don't I don't mow the lawn a lot but when

I do i'm always listening to something as well definitely, uh Makes good use of that time.

So very cool. Nice I believe

I speak for the entire chat when I say we prefer saucy eli. Well, okay I could be saucy, you know,

I just I don't want to be mean but you know, sometimes um You know things because I read a meme or something like that.

I'm like, oh man, that's really bad Uh timothy even eli you're my hero well, thank you.

Okay. I appreciate that Um, let's see here an atheist can know no more than there's a yep.

Let's see. Thank you. This is helpful Do I live in the midwest

I live in north carolina I live in north carolina. That's right.

Okay. All right. That's it here. All right Well, I hope this was helpful folks. We're right there at the an hour and seven minutes

I think this is a good place to stop. This is a lot of fun. Um if uh There are memes or things you'd like me to cover feel free to email me at revealed apologetics at gmail .com

I do read my email and I am interested in what you guys are interested in So I want to make sure i'm putting out content that is useful for you um, but if you like these kinds of like analysis of these, you know memes and I don't always have time to teach if you guys know some of my videos.

I do entire presentations I have powerpoints on the screen. I don't always have time to make those so just doing something like this is really easy

I just share my screen and could interact with it and stuff like that. So if you guys think that's um helpful I'll try to do things.

Um along those lines or maybe responding to video clips and things like that Okay. Well, thank you so much guys for listening in.

I really do appreciate your love and support and appreciate prayers as well Um until next time not sure when i'm going on next time but I most definitely will got some things in the the back burner that i'm looking forward to um,